Psience Quest

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(2022-01-27, 12:06 AM)David001 Wrote: [ -> ]Well seriously, do you think that only people who vote the same way as you do are proper people to engage with on this forum? Doesn't it even cross your mind that people who vote in other ways, may have valid reasons for their choices? None of us used to think this way about politics - say 20 years ago.

Being anti-war is not 'an excuse'. I think it is the most important question - certainly when an American votes - is this candidate more or less likely to promote the cause of peace.

There you go again - trying to draw me into a political argument. It isn't just who you would vote for or this pathetic anti-war red herring, it was the rest of your political and social views- as you well know because you and Michael Larkin preached them over at Skeptiko. I am not going to argue politics with you here no matter how much you goad me. In fact I am not going to respond to you again so fire away at my Ignore shield as much as you like.
(2022-01-27, 12:06 AM)David001 Wrote: [ -> ]Well seriously, do you think that only people who vote the same way as you do are proper people to engage with on this forum? Doesn't it even cross your mind that people who vote in other ways, may have valid reasons for their choices? None of us used to think this way about politics - say 20 years ago.

Being anti-war is not 'an excuse'. I think it is the most important question - certainly when an American votes - is this candidate more or less likely to promote the cause of peace.

Yes this isn't appropriate David. What justification is there for going into, or furthering, a political topic on a very thread where we're discussing those kinds of topics being off the main forum in the first place?!?

You've said yourself you agree with the idea of politics not being a good fit for a psi forum.

Just because Kamarling said something that got you going, do you not have the willpower to control that instinct to answer back? Or at the very least answering somewhere else in the opt-in forums, or through attempted PM?
Further posts on this thread not respecting the forum rules will simply be deleted.
(2022-01-27, 02:49 AM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]It isn't just who you would vote for or this pathetic anti-war red herring, it was the rest of your political and social views-


As he now has both David and myself on ignore, this post isn’t visible to Kamarling, I regret that and wish he were not so sensitive, however…

Really, for someone to be so openly against other members ‘political and social views’ that are not radical or in any way unusual and still have a strong feeling against that individual because of them, yet be part of the ‘admin’ team, that make decisions about members of all political persuasions, is surely not healthy or sensible? Kamarling is so heavily opinionated that he is a liability IMO. 

Kamarling may claim that he doesn’t take an active part in the forums moderation, he simply ‘lets his feelings be known to the admins’ - but he definitely does influence their decisions!  

Transparency lacking once more.
(2022-01-27, 03:43 AM)Stan Woolley Wrote: [ -> ]As he now has both David and myself on ignore, this post isn’t visible to Kamarling, I regret that and wish he were not so sensitive, however…

Really, for someone to be so openly against other members ‘political and social views’ that are not radical or in any way unusual and still have a strong feeling against that individual because of them, yet be part of the ‘admin’ team, that make decisions about members of all political persuasions, is surely not healthy or sensible? Kamarling is so heavily opinionated that he is a liability IMO. 

Kamarling may claim that he doesn’t take an active part in the forums moderation, he simply ‘lets his feelings be known to the admins’ - but he definitely does influence their decisions!  

Transparency lacking once more.

No need to worry any more Steve. I've just informed one of the admins that I am leaving. But in response to your accusation, I think it is a bit rich calling me opinionated and a liability from you of all people. 

Anyhow, I'm sure that if you try a little harder, you and Bailey can wreck this forum too.
(2022-01-27, 04:02 AM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]I've just informed one of the admins that I am leaving.


That's really unfortunate as I enjoy and value your posts. Your gloomy outlook, too. I wish you'd reconsider.

I'm sure those who know you better feel even more strongly about this than I do.
(2022-01-27, 04:02 AM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]think it is a bit rich calling me opinionated and a liability from you of all people. 


I’m not an admin, nor do I wish to be. 

Unlike you, my opinions are of little consequence, they’re not used to influence the forum’s rules.
The forum is in danger of becoming Authoritarian. 

As I stated in a recent post, I have no wish to destroy this forum.

Oh, there’s no doubt that I’ve become very frustrated at how things have been going not only here on the forum, but also in the wider world. And the time has come for me to go, but before I go, I wanted to give you some uneasy impressions I now have of PsiQuest. 

I freely admit to posting heavily in the hidden forums, this was partly from my larger frustration with how I could see things going in the world around me, but also from how things were going on this site - imo they might have been a conscious reaction to the latter. It was a way of fighting back, venting. 

I felt I was being blocked from expressing my own opinions when I tried on a couple of occasions to counter Kamarling’s posts on the main site. I only wish we could see all these posts now, so as to get the whole picture, but these posts of mine were deleted by Ian’s (Ninshub) hand, along with his posts (the first time at least) without consulting any other ‘admins’. (Or owners, Mods, Founders, or any other names the rule makers go by)

I don’t suppose he took a copy of them so that we could have evidence so as to see exactly how events unfolded? No, of course not. Things started turning sour in the past two years, with videos I posted in good faith being moved to the other side, including a Tom Campbell video, which is totally ridiculous. I’ve now been temporarily banned by Ninshub (acting alone)twice after disputes were ‘handled’ by him in this manner. I admit to swearing at him alone the first time and at the admin team generally the latter, my friend Laird too. It is seen as unacceptable by the admin team to do so, and I would agree, but I did so only because I felt that I was being bullied, and had no other way to express my frustration. Childish and sad - yes. 

I wish we could all have access to the posts which led up to both my swearing events. That is why I think this sort of thing should be more transparent! I think it used to be, certainly it was the intention when Psi Quest was formed. 

The second time came after I made a complaint to ‘admin’ using the ‘report’ facility. Frankly I was amazed when Laird came back and said that the group of administrators agreed that I was at fault. 

He wrote in a later post…”In any case, posts in this thread were moved by general agreement of active moderators/founders, not by decree of Kamarling.”

Is it likely that any of them are going to go against a fellow ‘founder member’, one who remains a part of the ‘inner sanctum’? Of course not. 

The post which led me to use the report button (for the first time ever I think) was when Kamarling posted…

“See, this is the reason for the ignore ... hijack a thread to push the anti-vax crap.”

This was total nonsense, I had never even mentioned the vaccines, I was making a point about twisting facts and bias, which was the same basic topic that Kamarling’s post was a rant about as shown by Wikipedia. But Kamarling associates all these things including anti-vaxxers with me - he makes this ludicrous statement.Yet Laird and others agreed and my posts were removed to the opt-in forums where no one can see them. 

Of course Chuck makes a rare appearance to add his 2c, with…

“Is no one taking the bait in the opt in forums enough so that the trolling has to infect the main area of the forum?”

This of course received an immediate ‘like’ from Ian.  Having posted for many years in both Skeptiko and this forum, it is obvious that I am not a troll, and it’s simply disingenuous to suggest that I am. 

According to Laird, there are four people who together make decisions in the forum. Except Ninshub seems keen on banning me on his own, without consultation. Is this fair?  

They are Laird, Ninshub ,Kamarling and Typoz. 

Ian has recently taken to calling some founder members the forum ‘owners’. This is a eyebrow raising development.

So Kamarling makes this ludicrous and false statement, yet he is backed up by at least a majority, if not all of them. 

At least three of the four would be very happy to see the opt-in forums disappear completely, Ninshub, Kamarling and Typoz. It’s perhaps time to have a vote on the matter, but this should not be done surreptitiously.

Ian, you seem to be particularly upset at the idea that I made public something about your personal ‘facts’. I am not even sure of anything about you, only that you previously went by the name Ian Gordon and I only have an idea of how you make a living. Wow, how insensitive if I made that public, (sarcasm) but I don’t even have proof that I did  - do you? 

More guilt without proof? More transparency is needed. 

I’m sorry that it has come to this, but it is what it is - I’m being true to myself. Things will unfold quickly over the coming months and years, and perhaps my stance here and in the wider world will be vindicated, or perhaps proven misguided.

I will leave you with a statement from 2020, in which Ian wrote…



“The forum wouldn't be the same without you, Steve, and again I don't see you as someone on the "outside". You're colorful, but that's an added quality that not everybody brings and is greatly needed.

You're interested in all kinds of subjects, in all facets - the scientific side, the social-political, the spiritual, etc. etc. - you're really an incredibly well-rounded forum member - and I'm sure person as well.

Be well, my friend”

Indeed, be well, all of you.  Praying hands
(2022-01-27, 06:23 AM)Stan Woolley Wrote: [ -> ]And the time has come for me to go ...


Another one! C'mon guys, there's no need. 

Stan, I hope you'll reconsider. I've enjoyed getting to know you a little.
(2022-01-27, 03:31 AM)Ninshub Wrote: [ -> ]Yes this isn't appropriate David. What justification is there for going into, or furthering, a political topic on a very thread where we're discussing those kinds of topics being off the main forum in the first place?!?

You've said yourself you agree with the idea of politics not being a good fit for a psi forum.

Just because Kamarling said something that got you going, do you not have the willpower to control that instinct to answer back? Or at the very least answering somewhere else in the opt-in forums, or through attempted PM?

For what it is worth, I think both Kamarling and Stan make positive contributions to this forum.
Removing further political posts from this thread (or maybe from the whole visible forum) may be the best possible solution.
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