(2019-03-17, 06:39 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]I already posted this here, Dave:
https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-nde-s?page=34
No worries though, it probably fits better in here so leave yours up and I'll delete mine (as soon as you've seen it)
I'd leave your post too, Tim. You did provide some added value with your comments and brief excerpt.
(2019-03-17, 06:39 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]I already posted this here, Dave:
https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-nde-s?page=34
No worries though, it probably fits better in here so leave yours up and I'll delete mine (as soon as you've seen it)
Yeah, sorry Tim, I have a habit of posting links that I assume are new because they are new to me. Clearly not all of us have the time to read every post and follow every link so double-exposure is inevitable, I guess. Not necessarily such a bad thing unless one thread derails another, which is never the intent, of course.
(2019-03-17, 07:36 PM)Kamarling Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, sorry Tim, I have a habit of posting links that I assume are new because they are new to me. Clearly not all of us have the time to read every post and follow every link so double-exposure is inevitable, I guess. Not necessarily such a bad thing unless one thread derails another, which is never the intent, of course.
I agree, Dave. I've got some stuff I'd like to post but I haven't got permission yet (from the sources).
I assume you've seen this from the same source ?
https://goop.com/wellness/spirituality/s...afterlife/ Not sure it belongs here though so I'll delete it within the next twenty four hours.
"This group of conventional scientists denies legitimate data, and instead claims that it can’t be, therefore it isn’t. Some analysts call this “scientism”—turning science into something like a religious belief which is supposed to be the supreme and only way to explore unusual phenomena. However, you can’t deny the data no matter how much it contradicts your worldview."
This is an interesting read and combination of anesthesia awareness+NDE, I could compare it to Pam's NDE:
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38733131
The woman had a traumatic AW experience, and that is very common when AW happens. In Pam's case, there was no sign of distress or pain.
The woman couldn't see anything, only hear. There is no mention of any veridical sight going on, as she couldn't even open her eyes. Pam instead had vivid memories with sight in them, although she too had her eyes closed and taped.
When nearing death due to suffocation, the woman had an NDE with classic elements. Feeling of peace, relaxation, being in company of God and so on. Curious that it only happened while she was dying, and not before during the rest of AW.
The woman then fully recovered. What do we make of it? It seems that the NDE is a separate event from AW, taking place at the exact moment in which she risked death and was suffocating. It doesn't seem an effect of the drugs given to her.
AW also looks much different than what Pam felt and experienced.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic...rlife.html
An interesting NDE, but the article contains the usual skeptical attempts to explain away these experiences:
Quote:They suspect that this burst of surprisingly organized, likely conscious brain activity may be way people have near-death visions, particularly those aligned with what they believe they will see after their lives have ended.
Hi all, I was re-reading Donna Penner's combined AA and NDE. i think that it closely debunks the idea that NDE are produced by drugs in anesthesia awareness forthe following reasons:
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38733131 read this, this is the “standard” case of anesthesia awareness. She lived an hellish experience, and she was mentally scarred for a long time with recurring nightmares. She was a bit unlucky, as not all patients having it feel intense pain, but the vast majority find it distressing (you can search papers about it on pubmed, they’ll confirm it).
What is interesting is that, when she was in AA she also had a NDE. Oddly, this couldn’t come from drugs, as the NDE event would have started earlier and nobody had given increased drugs during her AA, and even more odd is the fact that the NDE started exactly when she was actually risking her life, since they removed her respirator. She was dying in that moment, not before during the AA which only proved horribly painful, and in that exact same moment her NDE “started”. What are the chances of some drugs, already present in her body, to create an experience that has about the same pattern as hundreds or thousands of other in the exact same moment where she was actually dying, and not a moment before. And what kind of drug. or naturally released DMT in the brain, just stops the hallucinations abruptly when the cause of dying has been eliminated and the anesthesiologyst came to her rescue?
They seem, AA and the NDE, two totally non correlated events. The NDE is very brief and starts at a precise moment in time, sending in her in a state opposite to what she was experiencing before. As quickly as it appeared, it vanishes when she is rescued. Drugs don’t behave like that, it takes half an hour at least to get out of a powerful, hallucinatory DMT trip and maybe even more with opiates.
Courtesy of the SPR Facebook page, here's a new review article on NDEs:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.100...019-0983-2
Semiology and Mechanisms of Near-Death Experiences
Costanza Peinkhofer, Jens P. Dreier and Daniel Kondziella
Current Neurology and Neuroscience Reports (2019) 19: 62
Abstract
PURPOSE OF REVIEW:
Near-death experiences (NDEs) are conscious perceptual experiences, including self-related emotional, spiritual, and mystical experiences, occurring in close encounters with death or in non-life-threatening situations. The origin of NDEs remains unknown. Here, we review recent advances in the understanding of NDE semiology and pathophysiology.
RECENT FINDINGS:
Recent prospective studies confirm that NDEs reflect a spectrum of highly distinctive memories which are associated with negative or positive emotions and can be influenced by the nature of the causal event, but the temporal sequence with which these images unfold is variable. Some drugs, notably ketamine, may lead to experiences that are similar or even identical to NDEs. New models extend previous neural network theories and include aspects of evolutionary and quantum theories. Although the factual existence of NDEs is no longer doubted and the semiology well-described, a pathophysiological model that includes all aspects of NDEs is still lacking.
Unfortunately the full article is available only for an outrageous £36.
(2019-08-02, 07:30 AM)Chris Wrote: [ -> ]Courtesy of the SPR Facebook page, here's a new review article on NDEs:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.100...019-0983-2
Semiology and Mechanisms of Near-Death Experiences
Costanza Peinkhofer, Jens P. Dreier and Daniel Kondziella
Current Neurology and Neuroscience Reports (2019) 19: 62
Abstract
PURPOSE OF REVIEW:
Near-death experiences (NDEs) are conscious perceptual experiences, including self-related emotional, spiritual, and mystical experiences, occurring in close encounters with death or in non-life-threatening situations. The origin of NDEs remains unknown. Here, we review recent advances in the understanding of NDE semiology and pathophysiology.
RECENT FINDINGS:
Recent prospective studies confirm that NDEs reflect a spectrum of highly distinctive memories which are associated with negative or positive emotions and can be influenced by the nature of the causal event, but the temporal sequence with which these images unfold is variable. Some drugs, notably ketamine, may lead to experiences that are similar or even identical to NDEs. New models extend previous neural network theories and include aspects of evolutionary and quantum theories. Although the factual existence of NDEs is no longer doubted and the semiology well-described, a pathophysiological model that includes all aspects of NDEs is still lacking.
Unfortunately the full article is available only for an outrageous £36.
Would be an interesting read, but the price is too high.
Can ketamine/Dmt be the reason of these experiences? Surely there are some similarities, although often I see that the research focuses on the words used, not on the feelings left on the persons
Of course people under ketamine feel good, joy too. I had a few friends who really liked that kind of "high". They never gave me the impression they were having some kind of NDE tough. No universal love, no full understanding, no verifiable OBEs. They sometimes felt "like they were out of their body", but NDErs don't just "feel like it", they actually are outside their bodies (at least according to their POW). And no ketamine trip I've ever seen brought significative personality changes and reduced fear of death.
I don't deny it is possible that NDEs are caused by chemicals, unlikely as that is. But I would like direct comparisons between NDErs experience and ketamine. Also, why not have NDErs directly try ketamine and see if it is the same?