NDE's

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[To eliminate confusion after moving this post to the commentary thread, the immediately above post to which tim refers in the first sentence below ("NDE caused by head/injury/coma") is this one --Laird]

Connecting up with the theme above (NDE caused by a head injury/coma). This study from China found the incidence of NDE to be lower than that reported in survivors of cardiac arrest.

"Infrequent near death experiences in severe brain injury survivors - A quantitative and qualitative study"

Our present study was aimed at collecting this valuable information from survivors of severe head injury after a prolonged coma. The study was conducted in the head injury department of Guangdong 999 Brain hospital, Guangzhou, China.

Only three patients had clearly recognisable NDE narratives. One of them had a negative NDE and interestingly reveals that he thought he was being 'punished for his wrongs.'  We obviously can't draw that conclusion, though.  

Individual differences in opinions about death

The second subject who had the 3-D light experience on the other hand opined that death is the end of material life: "You know, the more I think of it, it makes me think that death actually takes everything away from you and gives you a whole new identity.
It's like….you don't die exactly. But you do die in terms of materialism. Your body dies….your sense of having body dies…your all materialistic possessions die….You actually die… and then, there is a completely new you. I don't know if it's after-life…or just a big vacuum up there. But there is for sure, I….I….just can't explain it."

It's worth a look for those interested in this subject and you can actually "click" on the small pictures to enlarge them. I bet you're thrilled about that, Malf. Wink

 http://www.annalsofian.org/article.asp?i...aulast=Hou

Hou Y, Huang Q, Prakash R, Chaudhury S. Infrequent near death experiences in severe brain injury survivors - A quantitative and qualitative study. Ann Indian Acad Neurol 2013;16:75-81

NB* Apologies if I've already posted this somewhere. Don't think I have but I wouldn't bet against it.
(This post was last modified: 2020-03-22, 11:02 AM by Laird.)
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This is the OBE (during an in hospital cardiac arrest) of Robert O. He very kindly gave me these details when I wrote to him (emailed) quite a few months back. He subsequently gave me permission to post it.  Robert was very seriously ill and I do not know, unfortunately, whether he is still with us, or not.

Several of the "veridical" OBE events were confirmed with medical staff members within the first week....and one of the nurses was pretty freaked out by it...but one (a senior nurse) had seen it happen before (from previous Code Blue patients) over the years.
Because my Code Blue had occurred two days after the surgery.....I was no longer in the ICU/CCU section (on the 1st floor of this 8 floor hospital) - and had been transported to the 4th floor (Rm 421B) - which also has a CCU section - but not as aggressive or heavily monitored like the primary ICU section is....although in early recovery stage from a majorly invasive surgery....my system - by all medical means - appeared to be doing as good - if not better - then as expected -

Vitals were all strong....and I was very alert and responsive - so the decision was made to transport me to the 4th floor and free up another ICU room - a common goal of all hospitals - especially one as busy as this one (fortunately..on the 4th floor....I still had EEG monitoring and oxygen monitors - which triggered the warning alarms and initiated the steps for the "Code Blue" broadcast.

And as my room was straight across from the nurses station - emergency response was rapid - take ANY one of those criteria out of this picture and I might not be here typing this.  To the best of my ability (again time and sequence has been hard to analyze for me...) I first saw things from above minutes before the coding.....at that point...I was already under breathing assistance with poor respiration drive and my system was undergoing hypotension - I was still listed as alert on the CPR record and could hear and feel all the commotion around me.....

Then things took a real bad turn and I remember a brief period of not sensing anything.....blood pressure dropped rapidly...heat beat was now sporadic and I was now being paced. Then - I heard a soft...but firm voice say " Doctor - We're losing him..." (now known to be Nurse K* who was monitoring Vitals)

I had now been intubated and they had started CPR - and I heard the 'Code Blue' over the intercom again...but this time - I was up by the ceiling speakers...no longer in the body....watching 5 response staff in what I call "organized chaos"...I started looking at my body and thinking..."Man - do I look bad....not good...not good at all !"...

Then I felt the wind below me as 2 men rushed in (techs) to assist the crew...now counting 7 in the room (8 counting me but I didn't count me) - with 2 more standing in the entry way to the room....( weeks later - once transported back to the 4th floor - I first told one of the nurses - who I recognized from the CPR (and she asked me - how do you know I was there?...you were non-responsive in Code ! )  

I saw a total of nine....and she said.."No - there were only 7 of us" - to which I then told her - I counted the two over by the doorway- and she freaked out- and said, "Wow -  yes - they were on 'stand-by'... there to assist if needed and be runners - in case we needed supplies (STAT)  - but they were not part of the response team in the room...how could you possibly know we hand stand-by..?" -

My answer....."Because I saw them - from up above them - just as I saw you.....3 other ladies, 2 men ...and one very tall doctor"...she was one of the younger nurses with only a decade or so of experience....and she just kept saying "Wow"...over and over. Because the cardiac arrest happened at 3 am...and this was the over-night crew on the 4th floor ( most patients are sleeping at those hours - naturally) ...

I didn't get to see some of the staff...or talk with some of them - until weeks after the event when I was moved out there for final recovery and to get ready for discharge. Two of the nurses were from the ICU ....and I have only had the chance to talk with one of them....and still have not - despite my many visits as an on-going out-patient there during the days....not had the chance to meet and talk with the Doctor....he works only nights.

During my Coma....they lost me briefly a few more times...(what they call a hic-cup) and each time I went out of my body....I saw my wife and my daughter out in the waiting room ( a fairly large waiting room - seats up to 100) ....my wife was sitting on the light blue 'love seat' by the back wall and my daughter was sitting on the arm chair near by it.....

My wife had tears running down her face...and my daughter was trying to calm her....saying "He's going to make it ...have faith...he's strong...he's a survivor - he's going to make it." I have spoken to both my wife and daughter about this several days later....and they were both awed by the detail....that was exactly where they sat....and close to the exact words my daughter said (apparently I missed a word or two...) ....and they told me they had just come from the nurses station asking how I was doing....and the nurse told them I was still in critical condition....and non-responsive...but somewhat stable....no change in either direction.

   There were many of these OBE events - possibly because of my severe condition....I also told  a transport guy - a few days after I was extubated...that the young girl with long black hair....past her waist...needs to learn how to drive better and stop hitting elevator door jabs and doorways .....and he was fascinated by that...he knew exactly who I was talking about...said she had only been there a few days....and was learning how to navigate the beds solo (they typically use two persons on 'transports' - but they're not always available on all floors in the early morning hours)
(This post was last modified: 2018-04-08, 08:10 PM by tim.)
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(* Sceptics look away)

My friend's dead mother appeared by his side (in his vehicle) and told him that he needed to get to hospital urgently. He didn't know where the hospital was, but she guided him down these back roads in an unfamiliar (to my friend) part of the USA.
He then managed to get inside (the hospital)l before dropping dead on the floor. He was brought back by the skill of a Mexican male nurse (who gave him lengthy CPR and multiple shocks) before spending three weeks in a coma.

The point here is... how did the 'spirit' of his dead mother know that he was about to die ? I've come across this many times and I now believe that the inhabitants of this other 'world' (whatever it is) know exactly what is going to happen in this world and sometimes intervene ?

 And that's all I feel I can say on the matter. Of course, such notions create great amusement amongst the guardians of rationality etc. Nevertheless, his story knits together perfectly and although he can't show me a picture of his dead mother sitting beside him, there is no way that this was invented. My friend was compelled by 'something' to change the direction of his journey (during the night) and go to hospital when he had no way of knowing that he was going to die and no way of knowing where the hospital was.
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Janine Shepherd, a former Olympic athelete, describes the 'insight' she was given after a truly horrendous accident. Her subsequent NDE touches on the puzzling 'questions' mentioned in the posts above.

I could, at will, move between two dimensions. One moment, I was in my body in the physical plane, and the next, I was in the non-physical—sometimes in both places at the same time. The only distinction between the two was that one came with excruciating pain, while the other felt detached from worldly concerns, and pain-free.

I knew I was being guided and nurtured by those who had travelled such a journey long before mine. There were no spoken words between us, only thoughts, and even those thoughts are today difficult to recount. I was experiencing pure awareness.


I was offered a choice: To remain in this spiritual world or return to my physical body—one seemingly now broken beyond repair.

Those 10 days in death, alternating visits between physical and ethereal worlds, gave me a deep and profound understanding of who I truly am, and my purpose in life.
 
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wha...8a33f62dc9
(This post was last modified: 2018-04-10, 03:04 PM by tim.)
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The famous Australian climber Lincoln Hall, is the only person to have survived a night at the top of Mount Everest at 29,000 feet, without any oxygen and only a minimum of clothing. He had been left for dead by the Sherpa assisstants who did not have the strength to carry his body down the mountain.

In this incredibly dire situation, Hall describes (in his book Dead Lucky) what he experienced as he literally lay right on the edge of death. How he felt himself 'wearing' what he describes as the 'cloak of death/darkness' but somehow choosing to take it off and live (stay on earth) 

In this interview with ABC (Australia) in 2011, Hall answers questions about his life and experience during this event.
Sadly Lincoln died prematurely in 2012 (from exposure to asbestos)

http://www.abc.net.au/compass/s3338159.htm

"My out of body experience came when I emerged from some kind of sleep or dream or something. I'd certainly passed out in some respect, but then something really strange happened, and that is that I didn't want to be there. But suddenly I wasn't there. I wasn't there on the rock. However I could see myself on the rock about 10 metres away, maybe a metre or two above.

Obviously I was from being 10 metres away it was a completely different angle and I could see the sherpas over here and I could see the sherpas there. And I didn't really think anything about it. And then I'm not quite sure what made the switch happen, but suddenly it was a switch back to where I was. And so it was a huge sort of jolt of adrenaline, of fear."
(This post was last modified: 2018-04-12, 03:57 PM by tim.)
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Some of the members have seen this NDE reported by Canadian artist, Jeremy Down. For those that haven't, the video offers a very picturesque description of the events that led to it and his subsequent thoughts and feelings on what it means.

"It just seemed to make complete sense like we all come to earth here and we forget who we are and why we came back to move forward. I dunno, it's hard to put into words but there's a definite purpose and it makes complete sense." 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQESgxwICoA
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This woman had an NDE when her heart stopped during the removal of a brain tumour. She says she had never heard of such a thing (as an NDE) before. That would at least rule out expectation, presumably.

Ron Barnett :

"Her description of what she experienced during her 'death' sounds similar to what you may have heard before, although she says that at the time she hadn’t ever heard of such things happening to anyone. She said to her it seemed more real than sitting in the laundry room at the Towers talking with me" (The reporter RB)

"And I remember being outside of what seemed like a wall or a gate. And my two grandfathers who had passed before me and my godfather who had passed before came out, and they were these white beings. And there was like no real form to them. And we communicated, it must have been by thought."

"I had all the answers to everything. I mean I knew everything. And it was like phenomenal. I felt total bliss."

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/o...416472002/
(This post was last modified: 2018-04-14, 05:51 PM by tim.)
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For those who are not familiar with John Geiger's excellent book, The Third Man factor, here is a nice sample of the content.

 Geiger spent five years tracking down the stories of people who've experienced the Third Man phenomenon. He opens his book with the story of Ron Di Francesco, a worker at the World Trade Centre on 9/11.

"There was still danger, so it led me to the stairwell, led me to break through, led me to run through the fire. . . . There was obviously somebody encouraging me. That's not where you go, you don't go toward the fire. . . ."

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor...=112746464
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This is a rather curious report from a woman who attempted suicide by jumping out of a fourth floor window in East Germany in 1947. She reports some elements, such as being able to perceive the thoughts of people while out of her body and also claiming to know when someone was going to die, amongst other things.

She also alludes to a feeling of guilt drawing her back to her body which lay in the hospital morgue waiting to be dissected, apparently. It is a bit confusing and not just because the translation may not be quite accurate, I'm not sure.

With thanks to 
[Image: AJLlDp2n0HuQ469kvvsbm2FHz35kmQ9t59MXAXdJ...ff-rj-k-no]  
Empirische Jenseitsforschung

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izh3lP4gZuw
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In March 2009, Raymond O'Brien collapsed at home. He barely managed to summon help (999) through the intervention of his cat, which in licking Ray's nose, somehow roused him just enough to make the call for help on his mobile phone.

Inside the ambulance, Raymond died for the first time and was defibrillated. He woke up and asked the ambulance staff if they wanted to come back in the house for a cup of tea, as he felt fine now.

"No, Ray, this is very serious, you died! " ...and she pointed to a red clock on the ambulance wall which had been set to 12 midnight, the exact time his heart stopped. During his close brush with death, he was defibrillated no less than ten times and during this, he experienced leaving his physical body behind on several occasions and also visiting a place he describes as paradise.

Raymond very kindly allowed me to reproduce his experience here and he is currently finishing his training as a
PTSD (Post traumatic stress disorder) counsellor, such was the extreme pain and literally 'shocking' circumstances of his resuscitation. NB. It is very unusual for anyone to feel the pain from defibrillation (but it does occasionally happen, apparently)

In the ambulance when his heart stopped:

The "wind" was the first contact with my soul, I felt the incredible power of this sentient being as it welcomed me, as it passed through me from the right hand side. The first touch it made with me was my right upper shoulder, quickly followed by my waist and right leg, it went through me so quickly and yet slow enough to introduce itself. I was immediately aware of a sense of knowing this "wind." The way it passed through my soul was akin to the most wonderful blissful sensation, I am trying so much to give an understanding of what happened when we met.

I can only say it was on par with the most comfortable warm duvet, open fire warmth that one could have ever experienced... it was so soft on my soul. The two of us connected which brought a comfort and calmness to us, there seemed to be a slight edge of confusion from the "wind" in regards to me. All of this is happening even before I have raised my head to look around, I was still fixed on looking at my bare feet when I realized by the emptiness within that the "wind" had left my soul alone.

As I took in what was unfolding I recall having a thought that this time I am going take all of this moment in and the way I am going to do this is by being practical! I very briefly looked at the scenery to my right, there was a green pasture that led off to water, it could have been a lake (Ray mentioned here that he was surprised to then telepathically communicate with a swan who asked him where he had been)....

...but I was more fascinated with the feeling coming from my feet, I looked back down at them, the grass was protruding through my toes. I started to get excited at the realization of where I was.

The "other side" was reinforced with what I was seeing at my feet. The grass of course was not grass in the sense of grass in a park for instance. It resembled very warm soft straight fur about two inches or so in height. I scrunched my toes and could feel the smoothness of each green blade of it.

The fur grass was slippery smooth between my toes and I was impressed with this as it gave me another affirmation to my sense of being on the "other side."

It was then that I looked up again to see just up ahead on a very slight hill, there were two men, and three women standing almost parallel to each other. The two men, one elderly, the other younger, wore white togas. What impressed me about the older man was that he had this inner strength. I have never experienced such energy! He had so much power, it shone out between his neck and shoulders.

The younger man, say around forty years of age, had brown hair and a good tan. The elderly man was clearly healthy, but he had white hair and a white beard. Of the three women/ladies, one was taller than the other two and they also wore white togas with additional white head veils. The women and the man were in conversation with the elderly man, who had a tan coloured book in his left hand he seemed to be reading from.

There I stood and I was just waiting patiently for a very short while. The tallest woman, who was just stunning, had long dark brown hair and the most beautiful face! She stood opposite to the younger man, turned and looked directly at me, smiling.

I smiled back, then I watched her bend forward and say something to the younger man and as she did, the other two women turned their attention from the elderly man to looking past each other to see me standing there. I don't recall their faces just the angle they took to look past the tall woman.

The colour contrast between the bright white clothing, the green "fur" grass and the blue sky was mesmerizing to me! The beautiful smell of this place became implanted in me as I was to find out several years later!  Each passing second made me closer to staying here.

All of a sudden I found I was standing next to the younger man,  how this happened, I don't know; but I did see him turn and hear him say to the elderly man, "Rays here!"

I knew from the energy that was given off, the elderly man had the final say on what was going to happen to me. My eyes were fixed not on him but on the tan coloured book in his left hand and with the gentlest of gestures, without even looking up from his book, he waved his right hand and said at the same time, "He should not be here"

Ray then awakes in the ambulance and is transported to hospital. He then suffers a series of cardiac arrests (9 more) and is defibrillated with additional chest compressions many times.

Typical of one of these arrests is this out of body experience in the resuscitation room.

One bizarre moment I can recall  distinctly is being defibrillated and then immediately sitting up and raising my right arm, pointing with my finger at the crash team. They visibly recoiled from me and I heard myself say to them "Thanks, I needed that!"

Then I fell back again..my head hit the black cushioning on the trolley... I had a burning cold hot pain in my chest...then blackness... then a very violent  awakening from this blackness. I assume the violent awakening came from the defibrillator. A sense of suffocation, followed by a deep intake of breath and an immediate panic... and then the sensation of my nose being pressed up against the white ceiling tiles that they have in the hospitals.

 I was blown away by the realization that I am on the ceiling !  I could actually see the tiny fibre-board holes in the tiles, followed by bright white cold light coming from what appeared to be the fluorescent lights, I then had the feeling of falling down back in to my body.  I fought with the staff, I could hear them say "Its us, Ray its us!"

I was so angry at the pain that they were giving me that I shouted "What the hell do you think you are doing to me?"

The staff were holding me down as I was trying to get them off me... two members of staff per leg and the same for my arms. I came too, but I knew more was still to come it was just a clear sense of knowing. I spoke to some of the cardiac sisters just a month ago about this 'event.'  They know the crash team and they said to me "You must have really freaked them out, Ray!" 
 
His final out of body experience :

 (I recall that OBE very well in actual fact it still touches me at this very moment) The other day on my white board in the kitchen I wrote this.

 He doesn't know this is going to hurt me. 'He' is called B...., a member of the crash team that night... and as I sat on my haunches (out of my body), on my physical forehead knowing that I'm probably dead, I was shocked to understand how quickly it was all over with my life to a point where a sense of guilt came to mind because I had left my body and really did not give any thought or thanks to what we had been through together in life.

So I said, "Thank you, Ray" as I looked along the length of my physical body below me. The crash team were running out of idea's of what to do next, I could see it in their expressions and a slight lack of urgency of movements in comparison to the start of my resuscitation.

As they worked on me I could see the clock up on the wall and knew I had been here a while. What drew my eyes away from the clock was the 'slopping' movement of my body, side to side caused by the defibrillator.

I looked down at Ray (me), his tee-shirt cut open and I made a point of saying, "It doesn't matter what you do to me, it won't make the blindest bit of difference!" Wishful thinking, I suppose as I wanted to be where this journey had started (in paradise).

So here I am squatting on my forehead, this in itself felt completely natural, then B appeared with the defibrillator to my left hand side. B and my soul were very nearly at eye level to each other and as I looked at him, to my disbelief, he said to the crash team as he rubbed the paddles together, "If this doesn't bring him back, nothing will."  Then he applied the defibrillator to me and I came back. The staff had 'caught' me; I was back and knew it; I could feel it, the shock of coming back ....and it made me so angry. I knew then I was in big trouble.

Some of Ray's thoughts on this :

"He" (Ray >Me) also doesn't know this is going to hurt him...came from my soul. I felt empathy for my physical body, as I knew  that this 'event' had now taken a turn from the bliss of paradise to a dark and painful level.  I was coming back. 

The 'events' were still to be on-going, I was told this, in some form of telepathy between the bout's of dying. I was probably two thirds in, time wise, in this NDE/OBE and by this time it looked to me from my 'soul's' point of view that Ray (the physical Ray) is going through a very tough time... and now he knows it. And I did  know it, as each time I came back into my body, I would reassess and take stock of the situation.

I recall (as a soul) lying back down in my body after B (the nurse/tech) had shocked me. I find it most unusual now to be remembering the 'event' from two separate plains, the physical which was intertwined with the unknown. The word unknown was hugely significant to me.

It is full of the most intense panic, the fear of the awareness that 'I have to wait and lie here' for the next 'event' (arrest) and (possible shock from the defibrillator). I felt like the situation was comparable to the plight of Prometheus from Greek mythology. I'll never forget that thought. I understood that tale now and what the meaning meant to me.. and it meant sheer cold fear of the pain and knowing it was coming for me. 

I had accepted that I was going to die again. I could not take the information in quick enough to try and make sense of why ? I could see through the gaps of the staff to my right a shady grey shapeless fog had come for me again.

In response to a question about whether or not he had any conception of his non physical body :

I did see my feet. They were bare but slightly smaller. I was aware of the texture of my physical body's forehead and the strangeness of this situation but I was also comfortable with the 'rational.' I never spoke to B (from the crash team) about him defibrillating me, maybe I shall in the future. He left as quickly as he came, then a short while after this, the ambulance girl, R, who was the first person to resuscitate me in the ambulance, made an appearance. She came with another paramedic lady and I heard Rebecca say to her "Here he is, here's the man I was telling you about   Ray, you are so lucky!" 

Ray also described going sideways out of his physical body and ending up in a place somewhat less pleasant (but not hell)

Many thanks to Raymond O'Brien.

https://www.neardeathexperienceuk.com/community.html
(This post was last modified: 2018-04-30, 03:01 PM by tim.)
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