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High mental functioning despite brain injury
#1
A new paper: Discrepancy Between Cerebral Structure and Cognitive Functioning, A Review (Michael Nahm, PhD, David Rousseau, PhD, and Bruce Greyson, MD).

Quote:"...several cases involving brain dysplasias (abnormal cell development) and brain lesions (cell damage) indicate that large amounts of brain mass and its organic structures, even entire hemispheres, can be drastically altered, damaged, or even absent without causing a substantial impairment of the mental capacities of the affected persons. These exceptional individuals display a notable discrepancy between the condition of their cerebral structures and the quality of their cognitive functioning." 

(The paper explains how some neurophysiologists have theorized that extensive reorganization of neural functioning (neural plasticity) into a thin remaining layer of neurons is responsible for such cases. At this point this is just speculation. Mostly, such cases are just ignored.)

Quote:"Indeed, one might wonder whether such processes of reorganization are purely self-organizing processes of neuronal tissue in response to external stimuli, or whether the mind or “the self ” actively participates in these processes. Several studies suggest that the brain can indeed be altered by mental stimuli and processes on the molecular, cellular, and neural circuit levels. In a review focusing on neuroimaging studies, Beauregard (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/dow...1&type=pdf) summarized examples of mental influence on brain structure from research into emotional self-regulation, psychotherapy, and placebo experiments. He concluded that these studies strongly support the view that thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and volition do exert a causal influence on brain plasticity, and he pointed to the obvious fact that mental causation is an essential ingredient for successful therapies. This is, of course, also valid for patients who train to regain lost faculties after strokes, hemispherectomy, or brain injuries. The degree of success in rewiring the brain is clearly dependent on the patients' volition and purposeful training. According to Beauregard (in the same paper), such findings call into question positions in which all mental processes are thought to be entirely reducible to biochemical processes."

Comment: any valid neurocognitive theory has to account for such extreme cases of normal or even high mental functioning despite severe brain deficits due to conditions like hydrocephalus or brain injury, and also cases of savant syndrome, that are summarized in this paper. The prevailing materialist mind=brain concepts have grave difficulties here.
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#2
(12-26-2017, 09:05 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: A new paper: Discrepancy Between Cerebral Structure and Cognitive Functioning, A Review (Michael Nahm, PhD, David Rousseau, PhD, and Bruce Greyson, MD).


(The paper explains how some neurophysiologists have theorized that extensive reorganization of neural functioning (neural plasticity) into a thin remaining layer of neurons is responsible for such cases. At this point this is just speculation. Mostly, such cases are just ignored.)


Comment: any valid neurocognitive theory has to account for such extreme cases of normal or even high mental functioning despite severe brain deficits due to conditions like hydrocephalus or brain injury, and also cases of savant syndrome, that are summarized in this paper. The prevailing materialist mind=brain concepts have grave difficulties here.

My how quick are we to imply magical beliefs are a better interpretation analogous to ufo = extraterrestrial aliens. Your approach suffers because it has no backbone.
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#3
(12-26-2017, 09:05 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: A new paper: Discrepancy Between Cerebral Structure and Cognitive Functioning, A Review (Michael Nahm, PhD, David Rousseau, PhD, and Bruce Greyson, MD).


(The paper explains how some neurophysiologists have theorized that extensive reorganization of neural functioning (neural plasticity) into a thin remaining layer of neurons is responsible for such cases. At this point this is just speculation. Mostly, such cases are just ignored.)


Comment: any valid neurocognitive theory has to account for such extreme cases of normal or even high mental functioning despite severe brain deficits due to conditions like hydrocephalus or brain injury, and also cases of savant syndrome, that are summarized in this paper. The prevailing materialist mind=brain concepts have grave difficulties here.

Yep, greater loss of internal white matter compared to outer grey matter in these hydrocephalus cases. Grey matter apparently being the more important neuronal/cortex stuff. The brain seems capable of dealing with a range of insults, but seems to cope better with the rewiring, if the process causing the insult is slow, compared to fast changes, where it can't seem to change fast enough.

We know by now that the EM fields that the brain creates in everyday use, feed-back upon the brain's structure itself, entraining it's networks. So I agree, the brains processes are not just electro-chemical, there are important EM field processes going on too, and they look like excellent candidates for involvement in brain plasticity.

There seems little doubt that memory is tied to the brain, but it seems to me that my memory does not exist in isolation. As a simple example, I can write a reminder to myself on a scrap of note paper, which seems to extend my memory abilities, and shows that I have the ability to manipulate matter and energy to store access to my memories within nature, so that I can later re-access my memories, and/or also share that note with others. In memory terms, the brain can't really be very much different from the note paper. It's made from similar basic stuff to everything else in nature.

I get a great deal more clarity on these questions when I think about nature, and my experience of it, as coming about as the 'result' of the 'processing' of 'information'. And that this 'information' is actually stored quite differently to the 'result' which I experience. I think we've probably got muddled up by believing that the 'result' (what I experience) is the 'information', but I suggest it isn't, that is only the 'information' after it's been 'processed'.
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#4
(12-27-2017, 11:09 AM)Max_B Wrote: Yep, greater loss of internal white matter compared to outer grey matter in these hydrocephalus cases. Grey matter apparently being the more important neuronal/cortex stuff. The brain seems capable of dealing with a range of insults, but seems to cope better with the rewiring, if the process causing the insult is slow, compared to fast changes, where it can't seem to change fast enough.

We know by now that the EM fields that the brain creates in everyday use, feed-back upon the brain's structure itself, entraining it's networks. So I agree, the brains processes are not just electro-chemical, there are important EM field processes going on too, and they look like excellent candidates for involvement in brain plasticity.

There seems little doubt that memory is tied to the brain, but it seems to me that my memory does not exist in isolation. As a simple example, I can write a reminder to myself on a scrap of note paper, which seems to extend my memory abilities, and shows that I have the ability to manipulate matter and energy to store access to my memories within nature, so that I can later re-access my memories, and/or also share that note with others. In memory terms, the brain can't really be very much different from the note paper. It's made from similar basic stuff to everything else in nature.

I get a great deal more clarity on these questions when I think about nature, and my experience of it, as coming about as the 'result' of the 'processing' of 'information'. And that this 'information' is actually stored quite differently to the 'result' which I experience. I think we've probably got muddled up by believing that the 'result' (what I experience) is the 'information', but I suggest it isn't, that is only the 'information' after it's been 'processed'.

I believe EM fields arise from the electrochemical processes. They don't exist as separate things.
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#5
(12-27-2017, 11:51 AM)Steve001 Wrote: I believe EM fields arise from the electrochemical processes. They don't exist as separate things.

Up until quite recently, EM fields created by electrochemical processes in the brain (what we measure with EEG) were thought to only be an epiphenomena, just a by-product of what the brain does, but there is quite a lot of evidence now that these fields feedback onto the brain. Logically, this means that all fields within which the brain is embedded (internally and externally generated) appear to have to potential to affect the brain.
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#6
(12-27-2017, 12:33 PM)Max_B Wrote: Up until quite recently, EM fields created by electrochemical processes in the brain (what we measure with EEG) were thought to only be an epiphenomena, just a by-product of what the brain does, but there is quite a lot of evidence now that these fields feedback onto the brain. Logically, this means that all fields within which the brain is embedded (internally and externally generated) appear to have to potential to affect the brain.

Does a dead brain produce EM fields? There are many EM fields within the environment. Which particular EM fields are you referring to? Which of the multitudes correspond to the ones directly seen within the brain?
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#7
(12-27-2017, 12:50 PM)Steve001 Wrote: Does a dead brain produce EM fields? There are many EM fields within the environment. Which particular EM fields are you referring to? Which of the multitudes correspond to the ones directly seen within the brain?

Well, the most interesting EM fields for me are the very weak patterned EM fields, where we have for example, plenty of behavioral studies showing effects in animals exposed to weak oscillating magnetic fields, and also Prato et al 2013 showing hyperweak oscillating MF's mediate post traumatic stress like behavior in rodents. But these fields seem far too weak for heating/chemical effects to be responsible for the researchers results. These fields are very weak, it's quite amazing they have any effect on the behavior of animals, some studies have shown effects from fields as low as 1 nanoTesla, that's about 40,000 times weaker than the local geomagnetic field, but most are around 1000 times weaker. One would have thought the effect from such weak fields would have been drowned out by more powerful competing fields.

The results from these studies are a challenge, so researchers are having to consider new mechanisms... a variety have been proposed, but none appear as yet to solve all the issues. The most interesting recent paper I have read suggests that we start considering a mechanism at a more fundamental level, one operating on the magnetic moment of the organism itself.
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#8
So... Now we are dismissing postures as "magical beliefs"? Holy shit Steve, even you can't be that shallow.
"Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before..."
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#9
(12-27-2017, 09:00 PM)E. Flowers Wrote: So... Now we are dismissing postures as "magical beliefs"? Holy shit Steve, even you can't be that shallow.

I really do get tired of hearing the flimsiest reasons remarkable brain functioning despite trauma indicates this is a problem for materialism. Such expression is miraculous because it cannot explain how it is a better explanation.
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#10
And there you go again. I frankly don't think that are smart enough to be that arrogant or to arbitrarily determine what evidence is flimsy. By now you know damn well his arguments, since he has discussed them ad nauseam in other threads, so don't try to isolate this one to make it seem like he is simply proselytizing (playing threads for the lurkers is getting old and boring, BTW). Also, I would not be referencing "miracles" when it comes to this topic, your own posture requires a little one called emergence, which is still as unexplained as ever despite getting significantly more funding to prove it accurate than the alternatives.
"Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before..."
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