(2018-04-27, 05:38 PM)Typoz Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure it is.
Sometimes I've read through numerous written accounts of NDEs, looking for one that could be called "typical". But the the more I study, the more it seems that each one is unique, and there is no such thing as a typical example.
They are and I believe that to be thanks to the apparent strong effect the mind has in shaping the reality and experience on the "other side". The little differences in perception between each experience. It would seem wherever these people are going is similar to where lucid dreamers go in their experiences. But that's another story.
Michael Prescott is the guy I'm referencing as far as the apparent differences in Eben's experience go. I hadn't really thought about it the way he puts it in his article here (starts talking about his "problems" with Eben's NDE about half way through. I'd quote in the post but it's a lot of stuff):
http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/micha...-life.html
Nevermind, I just good ahead and stick it up for everyone's convenience. In Michael's words:
Quote:I said this was the biggest problem I've had with Alexander's account. There are two other problems. One is that the experience really does seem like a drug trip. I've read accounts of DMT testing under controlled conditions by psychiatrist Rick Strassman, and the bizarre, hallucinatory narrative recounted by Alexander matches them very well. Though I've never taken hallucinogenic drugs myself, when I think of Alexander's book, the images that come to my mind are from the Beatles movie Yellow Submarine – imagery that was obviously inspired by LSD trips.
My other problem with Alexander's book is related but slightly different. His NDE is simply different in almost all respects from the standard NDE's that have been reported, documented, and tabulated for decades. I don't know of any other NDE where somebody reports flying around on the back of a giant butterfly, for instance. To me, one of the convincing features of NDEs is their relative consistency (taking into account cultural and personal differences). Alexander's NDE breaks the mold in so many ways that it is, at best, an outlier, and perhaps more plausibly, not a true NDE at all.
The fact is that Alexander's NDE is by no means the most convincing such case. It has been widely discussed because it is the first NDE, as far as I know, to be reported by a brain surgeon. Alexander's professional training and status provide his story with a certain intrinsic interest and perhaps make it more credible, to some people, than the account of (say) a plumber. But there are many other NDEs that boast more striking veridical details and which fit much more comfortably into established narrative patterns.
(2018-04-27, 10:50 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, I wouldn't have wasted any precious time talking to her about existentialism. get the picture 
Just kidding
Boy, no kidding. I ought to try coming back from the brink some kind too
(just kidding as well)
"I'll tell you all about the butterfly ride...back at my place"
(2018-04-27, 11:41 PM)Desperado Wrote: [ -> ]Boy, no kidding. I ought to try coming back from the brink some kind too (just kidding as well)
"I'll tell you all about the butterfly ride...back at my place"
I genuinely didn’t know about her career change/reinvention when I posted that video.
(2018-04-28, 01:29 AM)malf Wrote: [ -> ]I genuinely didn’t know about her career change/reinvention when I posted that video.
Malf, you don't accept the word of anyone. Is there any reason why I should accept yours ?
(2018-04-27, 07:18 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]Not many will have seen this 2013 Alexander interview with a Dutch journalist who like all Dutch, are able to speak very good English (credit due) Worth a look for those interested. At 14.40 he deals with some relevant points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YfuYYJv-Vk&t=40s
Hi Tim,
That is wonderful that you found this interview.
I was aware of it at the time, but could not watch it as I had other things to do.
BTW - this Dutch journalist as you call her, is in fact not a journalist, but a theologican who has become popular in our country, the Netherlands, due to her programs which focus on all sorts of spiritual matters. Her name is Jacobine Geel (geel is Dutch for Yellow).
I think EA comes across as very natural and sincere.
Thanks for saying that "all Dutch" speak their English very well... But it is more correct to say that
many Dutch, and in particular the well educated, have a good grasp of English.
Another thing: It seems to me that some of the participants in this thread keep falling over EA's statement about his travelling together with a beautiful girl on the wings of an apparently giant butterfly.
I wonder what's the problem? Can't they imagine that "the other realm" differs very much from our earthly world?
As for appearances, over the past two decades my reading through the many many hundreds of NDE reports has revealed that appearences on the other side can assume many forms, such as beings of light (white or blueish) or orbs (i.e. glowing spheres) and so on. Then it is not all surprising that EA experienced giant butterflies...
Cheers to all
Smithy
(2018-04-27, 05:38 PM)Typoz Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure it is.
Sometimes I've read through numerous written accounts of NDEs, looking for one that could be called "typical". But the the more I study, the more it seems that each one is unique, and there is no such thing as a typical example.
You could not be more right, Typoz.
There is indeed no such thing as a typical example of NDE. They are all different.
All we can say is that some features, such as the tunnel and light, keep popping up (but are not typical of all NDEs).
Besides, the more important features of some NDEs are those with verified veridical observations. These can hardly be denied, despite all (sometimes vicious) attempts by skeptics to explain them away.
Smithy
(2018-04-28, 03:55 PM)Smithy Wrote: [ -> ]Another thing: It seems to me that some of the participants in this thread keep falling over EA's statement about his travelling together with a beautiful girl on the wings of an apparently giant butterfly.
I wonder what's the problem? Can't they imagine that "the other realm" differs very much from our earthly world?
As for appearances, over the past two decades my reading through the many many hundreds of NDE reports has revealed that appearences on the other side can assume many forms, such as beings of light (white or blueish) or orbs (i.e. glowing spheres) and so on. Then it is not all surprising that EA experienced giant butterflies...
Indeed so, regarding appearances.
I was just today reading an account of an STE (Spiritually Transformative Experience) rather than an NDE where this was said regarding the form or appearance:
Quote:She had shown me all the beings / heroes/ and archetypes that she was in my dreams over the years to help allay my fears and guide me in a positive direction.
Quote:Angee was 15 feet tall, beautiful and stunning to my eyes. Her eye color was gold and they emitted light like the sunrise. There was not a negative tone to her speech or to any feelings she expressed or any negativity to anything I felt. Her speech was far more eloquent than I could ever attempt to imitate. She also emitted a soft, light-glowing hue from behind her. I was given the impression she could appear as anything to convince me of her status to convey messages from our Creator.
(my
bold).
http://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1brian_h_ste.html
(2018-04-28, 03:55 PM)Smithy Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Tim,
That is wonderful that you found this interview.
I was aware of it at the time, but could not watch it as I had other things to do.
BTW - this Dutch journalist as you call her, is in fact not a journalist, but a theologican who has become popular in our country, the Netherlands, due to her programs which focus on all sorts of spiritual matters. Her name is Jacobine Geel (geel is Dutch for Yellow).
I think EA comes across as very natural and sincere.
Thanks for saying that "all Dutch" speak their English very well...
Another thing: It seems to me that some of the participants in this thread keep falling over EA's statement about his travelling together with a beautiful girl on the wings of an apparently giant butterfly. But it is more correct to say that many Dutch, and in particular the well educated, have a good grasp of English.
I wonder what's the problem? Can't they imagine that "the other realm" differs very much from our earthly world?
As for appearances, over the past two decades my reading through the many many hundreds of NDE reports has revealed that appearences on the other side can assume many forms, such as beings of light (white or blueish) or orbs (i.e. glowing spheres) and so on. Then it is not all surprising that EA experienced giant butterflies...
Cheers to all
Smithy
"this Dutch journalist as you call her, is in fact not a journalist, but a theologican who has become popular in our country, the Netherlands, due to her programs which focus on all sorts of spiritual matters. Her name is Jacobine Geel"
Thanks for the information, Smithy.
"But it is more correct to say that many Dutch, and in particular the well educated, have a good grasp of English."
Okay, I'll remember that. I'm English of course and we tend
not to have much of a grasp of foreign languages per se.
(2018-04-29, 01:12 PM)tim Wrote: [ -> ]"But it is more correct to say that many Dutch, and in particular the well educated, have a good grasp of English."
Okay, I'll remember that. I'm English of course and we tend not to have much of a grasp of foreign languages per se.
Too true, to our shame. I lived in South Africa for 15 years so I can understand a lot of Dutch words (I knew geel, for example) but I never troubled myself to actually learn or speak Afrikaans (a Dutch derivative) because, well, I'm English and everyone else speaks English. I keep telling myself that in the next incarnation I'll learn languages ... and to play an instrument ... and play football (soccer) ... and ...