Psience Quest

(2017-09-11, 08:07 PM)Silence Wrote: [ -> ]Its a tough one isn't?  The need for protocol with vague explanations as to the detailed "why", etc.

I'm glad we can discuss this stuff here neutrally without folks slamming the door shut.

jkmac, again, really appreciate your sharing and thinking here!

Hey, no problem. 

Enjoying the opportunity to do so, without a big argument ensuing.

Looks like you enjoyed yourself.

(2017-09-11, 09:56 PM)Pssst Wrote: [ -> ]Looks like you enjoyed yourself.

I enjoyed finally seeing a PM.

I was obviously left with way less hard evidence than I wanted to have, which was a big disappointment.

(2017-09-12, 12:06 AM)jkmac Wrote: [ -> ]I enjoyed finally seeing a PM.

I was obviously left with way less hard evidence than I wanted to have, which was a big disappointment.

What was the cost?

(2017-09-12, 12:54 AM)malf Wrote: [ -> ]What was the cost?

hundred bucks

and worth every penny for a chance to get the evidence I'm looking for.

(2017-09-12, 12:06 AM)jkmac Wrote: [ -> ]I was obviously left with way less hard evidence than I wanted to have, which was a big disappointment.

What evidence were you looking for?

(2017-09-13, 07:03 PM)Pssst Wrote: [ -> ]What evidence were you looking for?

I was looking for examples of things that were unambiguous. Something that couldn't be faked, or at least would be hard to fake. 

I'm not suggesting that what I experienced WAS fake, just that it would not have been very hard to do so, given the conditions.

I gave a list of several things in my original post that I would have considered "hard to fake".

The link you provided earlier (the My 50 years excerpt) included several examples of exactly what I am talking about:
A close up well lit chance to see a manifested partial body
A full manifestation of a person
Objects flying around distant from the medium at high speeds
The ability to touch a manifested entity, feel the hair etc

I can think of lots of ways to put these questions to rest. Unfortunately none of them happened.

I'm sure you must have read my post about the event. I described everything as accurately as I can. I'm not casting any aspersions, or making any claims (positive or negative). I think everyone should draw their own conclusions. And I haven't named a person or place of the demonstration because I don't want any of these people to be negatively affected by the accounts I have made. These are very possibly well meaning, or even exceptional people, that deserve not to be the subject of negative or mixed press.

As I've also said- I believe most of the people there that night went away totally satisfied. So there's that.

I honestly don't think my expectations are extreme or unreasonable. I'm bending over backward to have that not be the case anyway. And if they are, so be it: I can't pretend to myself that I am satisfied with what I've experienced. If I could, I would, because being in the position of believing this stuff is real, and not having the experience to support that belief, is exactly the place I don't want to be. 

Honestly, I would rather not believe at all, and then this lack of satisfaction wouldn't bother me a bit. Unfortunately that's not the case.

Physical mediumship, all mediumship for that matter, is nothing more than a tool or ritual to assist you in having an experiential physical life. Like any properly applied tool, it will give you what you need not what you want.

You developed a set of expectations and guess what, they, for the most part, didn't happen. What does that tell you? 

You created the physical mediumship demonstration as an exact reflection of the beliefs that you brought to it. One of those beliefs is that you could expect, or hope to expect, that the demonstration would, in part or whole, meet your expectations. That is one idea you can explore, perhaps it is that exploration that is what you need.

When you drop the expectations, you drop the impediment that those expectations bring with it. If you want to plan, plan, then drop it and trust yourself to get exactly what you need, in the form and style you need it, when you need it, not a moment sooner or later. Why else would you incarnate in this severely limiting environ if it wasn't for the process of learning and getting what you have come here to receive?

(2017-09-13, 08:55 PM)Pssst Wrote: [ -> ]Physical mediumship, all mediumship for that matter, is nothing more than a tool or ritual to assist you in having an experiential physical life. Like any properly applied tool, it will give you what you need not what you want.

You developed a set of expectations and guess what, they, for the most part, didn't happen. What does that tell you? 

You created the physical mediumship demonstration as an exact reflection of the beliefs that you brought to it. One of those beliefs is that you could expect, or hope to expect, that the demonstration would, in part or whole, meet your expectations. That is one idea you can explore, perhaps it is that exploration that is what you need.

When you drop the expectations, you drop the impediment that those expectations bring with it. If you want to plan, plan, then drop it and trust yourself to get exactly what you need, in the form and style you need it, when you need it, not a moment sooner or later. Why else would you incarnate in this severely limiting environ if it wasn't for the process of learning and getting what you have come here to receive?

Oh come on. That is such a cliche, BS answer. 

You sound like my good friend who is a born again christian. He told me that to experience God I need to believe in God. The problem is: that is circular logic. If, to believe in God you need to experience him(it?) then you have an unsolvable conundrum. You can't force yourself to believe in anything. You either do or you don't and for some (like me) it is based on evidence. 

I didn't "expect" anything going into the event. I hoped to have an experience that demonstrated to me whether all of this is real. 

Now you might say: well, apparently you expected nothing to happen and that's what DID happen. How can I argue that point? I can't say (nor control) what is in my subconscious somewhere. 

Now I saw the same things in that seance that others saw, and they were convinced. I would guess that in some way, they probably wanted to be convinced. However, I would tell you further, that they simply have a low threshold for belief. And if that's what's required to "believe" then count me out. I refuse to dumb myself down, to shut off my natural discernment for any reason. Certainly not if it is a part of a process of self delusion.

The medium even told me, as we sat and chatted before the seance, that this thing should be unambiguous and evidential and not require faith at all. And that's the way I went into it. 

In the end- saying that the reason nothing happened proves that I went into it expecting same, just feels like a pat response from you, and a self affirming contention.

It's just like saying to a kid who failed their Math exam: "you apparently didn't want to (or believe you could) pass your exam. You got exactly what you expected". 

That would be a glib, and smug thing to say to someone, and is exactly how you appear saying it.

Yeah it's all your fault jkmac. Sheesh.