2022-07-10, 06:47 PM
Two recent experiments, one for Orch Or and one apparently against ->
Experiment Suggests That Consciousness May Be Rooted in Quantum Physics
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Collapsing a leading theory for the quantum origin of consciousness
I have to admit that the timing seems a bit unusual to me, though Curceanu doesn't seem incredible hosticle to Orch Or...But we have actual research of from neuroscience suggesting some aspect of the theory may be true, and then some study done outside of neuroscience entirely ruling out a part of it? Perhaps the issue is more with some of the pop-sci stuff I've seen about the second study that challenges Orch Or, with no proper mention of the first that looked at the brain.
Ultimately I do suspect Orch Or may be too extragavant in its attempts to bring in quantum gravity and very specific conditions for collapse...OTOH the theory never seems to be given the proper credit for a physicist looking at the non-computability of consciousness + a doctor looking at conscious agency in microbes predicting quantum biology in defiance to so many naysayers. Even if Orch-OR's exact claims regarding the physics is wrong, I do think Penrose and Hammeroff have helped paved the way for future discoveries in quantum biology + neuroscience...
Experiment Suggests That Consciousness May Be Rooted in Quantum Physics
Quote:This breakdown of superpositions then allows consciousness to exist, the theory known as Orchestrated objective reduction (Orch OR) suggests.
Many scientists dismissed the idea. But the theory, according to New Scientist, has been gaining new traction lately.
In one recent experiment, it reported, a team led by Jack Tuszynski at the University of Alberta in Canada found that anesthetic drugs allow microtubules to re-emit trapped light in a much shorter time than originally thought.
They found that light caught inside an energy trap was re-emitted after a mysterious delay, a process they propose could be of quantum origin, New Scientist explains.
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Collapsing a leading theory for the quantum origin of consciousness
Quote:At the heart of the theory is the idea that gravity is related to quantum wavefunction collapse and that this collapse is faster in systems with more mass. This concept was developed in a number of models by various physicists in the 1980s. One of those was Lajos Diósi, at the Wigner Research Center for Physics and at the Eötvös Loránd University in Budapest, Hungary, who has co-authored the new paper with Curceanu, Maaneli Derakhshani of Rutgers University in New Brunswick, New Jersey, Matthias Laubenstein also at INFN, and Kristian Piscicchia of CREF and INFN. Penrose independently approached this idea a few years later and it became the core of his consciousness theory with Hammeroff.
The two theories are often referred to by the umbrella term, the "Diósi-Penrose theory." But behind the joint name there is an important difference, notes Curceanu. Diósi's approach predicts that collapse would be accompanied by the spontaneous emission of a small amount of radiation, just large enough to be detected by cutting edge experiments.
Quote:In their new paper they have explicitly examined the repercussions of their finding for Penrose and Hammeroff's Orch OR theory of consciousness. After reanalyzing the most plausible scenarios set out by Hammeroff and Penrose, in light of their recent experimental constraints on quantum collapse, they were led to conclude that almost none of the scenarios are plausible. "This is the first experimental investigation of the gravity-related quantum collapse pillar of the Orch OR consciousness model, which we hope will be followed by many others," says Curceanu. "I am very proud of our achievement."
Quote:But all is not lost for Orch Or, adds Curceanu. "Actually, the real work is just at the beginning." she says. In fact, Penrose's original collapse model, unlike Diósi's, did not predict spontaneous radiation, so has not been ruled out. The new paper also briefly discusses how a gravity-related collapse model might realistically be modified. "Such a revised model, which we are working on within the FQXi financed project, could leave the door open for Orch OR theory," Curceanu says.
I have to admit that the timing seems a bit unusual to me, though Curceanu doesn't seem incredible hosticle to Orch Or...But we have actual research of from neuroscience suggesting some aspect of the theory may be true, and then some study done outside of neuroscience entirely ruling out a part of it? Perhaps the issue is more with some of the pop-sci stuff I've seen about the second study that challenges Orch Or, with no proper mention of the first that looked at the brain.
Ultimately I do suspect Orch Or may be too extragavant in its attempts to bring in quantum gravity and very specific conditions for collapse...OTOH the theory never seems to be given the proper credit for a physicist looking at the non-computability of consciousness + a doctor looking at conscious agency in microbes predicting quantum biology in defiance to so many naysayers. Even if Orch-OR's exact claims regarding the physics is wrong, I do think Penrose and Hammeroff have helped paved the way for future discoveries in quantum biology + neuroscience...