In the current number of the Journal of the Society for Psychical Research is a Research Note by Robert Charman about the strange experience of the pilot and aviation executive Sir Peter Masefield, which was recounted by him in the 21 December 1972 issue of Flight International.
(2018-06-30, 09:51 PM)Chris Wrote: In the current number of the Journal of the Society for Psychical Research is a Research Note by Robert Charman about the strange experience of the pilot and aviation executive Sir Peter Masefield, which was recounted by him in the 21 December 1972 issue of Flight International.
I'm inclined to agree with Charman that The Montrose Ghost is a work of fiction, especially since it appeared in the Christmas edition of the magazine.
However, when I put "montrose ghost" into that site's search engine I found two letters on the subject.
The first on Jan 18, 1972 (split over two pages, hence two links) mentioned that odd things would often happen at Montrose, and that they had the first RAF casuality of WW2, on the day that war was declared.
The second (printed one week after and so almost certainly written and sent before the first had been published) explained that there had been a saying at Montrose that a ghost would protect the pilots there until another war broke out. There were no fatalities there, but some "miraculous" near misses.
An interesting story. The "protection" must have lasted from the time the air base reopened, 1st Jan '36, until the 1st Sept '39. Not sure how many casualties a flying school could expect in that time span, but the letter states that fatalities were "not unusual".
By the way, I can't tell if the first letter is also describing a mysterious disappearance or a never-recovered fatality or another ghostly plane.
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(This post was last modified: 2018-07-01, 08:41 AM by ersby.)
(2018-07-01, 08:04 AM)ersby Wrote: I'm inclined to agree with Charman that The Montrose Ghost is a work of fiction, especially since it appeared in the Christmas edition of the magazine.
However, when I put "montrose ghost" into that site's search engine I found two letters on the subject.
The first on Jan 18, 1972 (split over two pages, hence two links) mentioned that odd things would often happen at Montrose, and that they had the first RAF casuality of WW2, on the day that war was declared.
The second (printed one week after and so almost certainly written and sent before the first had been published) explained that there had been a saying at Montrose that a ghost would protect the pilots there until another war broke out. There were no fatalities there, but some "miraculous" near misses.
An interesting story. The "protection" must have lasted from the time the air base reopened, 1st Jan '36, until the 1st Sept '39. Not sure how many casualties a flying school could expect in that time span, but the letter states that fatalities were "not unusual".
Masefields story published in that magazine article is a very different, and highly embellished story to that which is recounted in the book “Ghosts of the Air”. The story as recounted in the book sounds much more realistic and typical, so I agree with you ersby.
(2018-07-01, 08:04 AM)ersby Wrote: I'm inclined to agree with Charman that The Montrose Ghost is a work of fiction, especially since it appeared in the Christmas edition of the magazine.
Yes - I had been trying to digest Charman's article before commenting. He concludes that the most likely explanation is that the story is a work of fiction. I felt it certainly read like fiction, and if it were true it would be surprising that Masefield didn't mention such a remarkable experience in his autobiography.
The only concrete discrepancy with the facts that Charman discovered was that according to Masefield's article he saw his vision of the crash at a place 8-9 miles north of the real crash site at Lunan Bay (called "Lunar Bay" throughout Charman's article). But the only source cited for the location of the crash site is Wikipedia, which in turn cites a short anonymous article on a defunct website called MysteryMag (perhaps copied from the Montrose Review). Obviously not very satisfactory.
However, it seems that Masefield didn't invent the Montrose Ghost itself. There's a long and detailed account of Desmond Arthur and the ghost by Keith Coleman on his Angus Folklore blog here: http://angusfolklore.blogspot.com/2017/0...-base.html
Coleman also places the crash at Lunan Bay and says that Forbes Inglis, in "Phantoms and Fairies, Tales of the Supernatural in Angus and Dundee" (1990), had identified some geographical inaccuracies in Masefield's story. He also makes the same comment as ersby - that the date of publication may indicate this was just another "Ghost Story for Christmas".
(2018-07-01, 08:47 AM)Max_B Wrote: Masefields story published in that magazine article is a very different, and highly embellished story to that which is recounted in the book “Ghosts of the Air”. The story as recounted in the book sounds much more realistic and typical, so I agree with you ersby.
The version in that book, by Martin Caidin, is also discussed in Charman's article. Curiously, although in most respects Masefield's account does read like an embellishment of Caidin's, Caidin's was published twenty years later, and Charman is clear that it is based on Masefield's. He also points out that despite simplifying the story, Caidin introduced a few embellishments of his own, such as that Masefield had himself flown from Montrose in the past, and that the pilot of the ghost plane was wearing a flying scarf.
(2018-07-01, 09:00 AM)Chris Wrote: Yes - I had been trying to digest Charman's article before commenting. He concludes that the most likely explanation is that the story is a work of fiction. I felt it certainly read like fiction, and if it were true it would be surprising that Masefield didn't mention such a remarkable experience in his autobiography.
The only concrete discrepancy with the facts that Charman discovered was that according to Masefield's article he saw his vision of the crash at a place 8-9 miles north of the real crash site at Lunan Bay (called "Lunar Bay" throughout Charman's article). But the only source cited for the location of the crash site is Wikipedia, which in turn cites a short anonymous article on a defunct website called MysteryMag (perhaps copied from the Montrose Review). Obviously not very satisfactory.
However, it seems that Masefield didn't invent the Montrose Ghost itself. There's a long and detailed account of Desmond Arthur and the ghost by Keith Coleman on his Angus Folklore blog here: http://angusfolklore.blogspot.com/2017/0...-base.html
Coleman also places the crash at Lunan Bay and says that Forbes Inglis, in "Phantoms and Fairies, Tales of the Supernatural in Angus and Dundee" (1990), had identified some geographical inaccuracies in Masefield's story. He also makes the same comment as ersby - that the date of publication may indicate this was just another "Ghost Story for Christmas".
Has someone got a link for Charman?
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
(2018-07-01, 11:14 AM)Max_B Wrote: Has someone got a link for Charman?
It's only just been published in the JSPR. I couldn't find a copy online.
Meanwhile, regarding the location of the crash, I search a newspaper archive and in the Dundee Courier of Weds 28 May 1913, a story (reproduced below) describes the incident and places it in Lunan Bay.
EYE-WITNESSES TELL THRILLING STORY
Aviation Disaster at Montrose. Pilot Dashed to Death from Height of 2000 Feet.
An astounding blow has been struck a aviation in Montrose, and one of the most expert young officers the Upper Dysart aerodrome is numbered among those who have sacrificed their lives to the conquest of the air.
Lieut. Desmond L. Arthur, Royal Munster Fusiliers, was the victim of catastrophy which electrified the rank and file No. 2 Squadron Royal Flying Corps and the community of Montrose and district yesterday.
From a height of 2000 feet this young pilot with his biplane crashed with terrific force to the ground, the aviator meeting death instantaneously—probably before he touched the ground—and the machine being smashed to atoms.
Body Sunk in the Ground.
His body penetrated a field of grass to a depth of four feet, and was frightfully mutilated.
His helmet and goggles were, however still on when he was discovered. The fatality is conjectured to have been the result of one of the wings failing, but a report was also heard to emanate from the machine, which was seen to turn turtle, and following upon this came like flash the apparent collapse of the aircraft.
The pilot, who was an expert aeronaut , had realised the gravity of the situation, and had loosened the waist strap ready for emergencies.
Within a few seconds, however, he was a corpse in a field on the border of the sands at Lunan Bay, while the biplane was a mass of fragments some 160 yards further south-east.
Beyond Human Aid.
The accident being observed from the aerodrome, several of the officers, with the medical orderly, hurried to the scene, and Dr Stone, military surgeon, Montrose, was immediately on the spot, but their services were of no avail.
The body of the gallant young airman placed in motor car and removed to the mortuary of Montrose Royal Infirmary while a guard was put on to protect the wreckage of the machine from public interference.
Lieutenant Arthur was about 30 years of age, and belonged to County Limerick. He was promoted lieutenant in the 5th Battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers on 27th May, 1911 and gazetted to the Royal Flying Corps on 14th April last. He joined No. Squadron a few days later.
A New Machine.
With other officers he went out for early morning reconnaissances from the aerodrome yesterday morning, and had charge of B.E, machine No. 205, which was piloted from South Farnborough to Montrose by Major Burke, who arrived with it on Saturday evening.
Prior to his fatal ascent he made a preparatorv flight, when the machine went beautifully. Captain Herbert, the flight commander for the day, made the initial flight for the purpose of testing the air, and the conditions were found to be ideal.
The deceased, with other pilots, then engaged in reconnaisances, and he made a beautiful ascent, no indications of any defect making their appearance until the machine was about a mile from the aerodrome and at an altitude of 2000 feet.
A report resembling peal of thunder was heard; the biplane turned somersault; like a speck on the horizon an object was observed in mid air, and in few seconds it had descended far enough to enable one to descry it be the pilot of the machine.
The biplane subsequently glided down by a series of rotary movements. Major Burke, commander, was on the scene, and directed investigations.
What the Eye-Witnesses Saw.
Interviewed by the "Courier" several eyewitnesses of the' catastrophe gave graphic accounts of how it happened.
Angus MacLeod, foreman platelayer, Braehead of Lunan, said the machine crossed over him at an altitude of 2000 feet, and immediately he heard what appeared to be thunder at a distance.
The machine then played somersault, and what he took be coat fell out. The machine then drifted in a south-easterly direction, and he observed the propeller still going.
In a second the left wing crumpled up, hardly had this occurred when he descried the body of a man diving through the air with feet downwards and hands stretched above the head. He saw the figure crash to the ground, feet first, about 200 yards east of Lunan Station.
From his position near Buckie Den Bridge he next saw the machine crcsh to the ground about 160 yards further east.
Stationmaster's Discovery.
Mr William Wynd, stationmaster at Lunan Bay, who was the rear of his house close by the scene of the fatality, was attracted by a grinding noise, and on glancing up observed the aeroplane from 300 to 400 yards the air.
The machine, Mr Wynd emphasised, did not come down like a stone, but by a series of somersaults while it still sailed along.
He was under the impression that had the aviator stuck to his machine he could have saved his life, because, while descending rapidly, there might have been opportunity of him escaping.
Thinking that the body of the pilot would be amongst tho wreckage, Mr Wynd made for the field in which the biplane lay in a heap, but in proceeding toward the spot he noticed a figure on the ground in the field adjoining.
He immediately turned in the direction where the aviator lay, with a view to succouring him, but on reaching the body found life to be extinct.
A dent had been made by the airman in his fall to a depth of from three to four feet.
Goggles Still Intact.
The ankles of the unfortunate pilot were reduced to pulp, but his injuries seemed to have been confined to the lower part of his body, as his helmet and goggles were still attached to his head.
From Panmure Barracks and the dock at Montrose other witnesses feared some catastrophe when they witnessed the machine rocking about in the air.
Various theories are advanced as to the cause the accident. One suggestion that the pilot was practising banking. Another is that the mishap was caused by an explosion, but the former theory is regarded as the more likely explanation of the terrible disaster.
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(This post was last modified: 2018-07-01, 11:50 AM by ersby.)
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(2018-07-01, 11:19 AM)ersby Wrote: It's only just been published in the JSPR. I couldn't find a copy online.
Meanwhile, regarding the location of the crash, I search a newspaper archive and in the Dundee Courier of Weds 28 May 1913, a story describes the incident and places it in Lunan Bay.
I haven't read the latest edition of the JSPR yet... but found it in there now, so thanks!
Deborah Lake gives more details in her book "Tartan Airforce", but with no reference to where the information came from...
The official accident report from the archives of the Royal Aero Club gives some more more certain information... but nothing about the specific location...
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
(2018-07-01, 11:19 AM)ersby Wrote: It's only just been published in the JSPR. I couldn't find a copy online.
Meanwhile, regarding the location of the crash, I search a newspaper archive and in the Dundee Courier of Weds 28 May 1913, a story (reproduced below) describes the incident and places it in Lunan Bay.
EYE-WITNESSES TELL THRILLING STORY
Aviation Disaster at Montrose. Pilot Dashed to Death from Height of 2000 Feet.
An astounding blow has been struck a aviation in Montrose, and one of the most expert young officers the Upper Dysart aerodrome is numbered among those who have sacrificed their lives to the conquest of the air.
Lieut. Desmond L. Arthur, Royal Munster Fusiliers, was the victim of catastrophy which electrified the rank and file No. 2 Squadron Royal Flying Corps and the community of Montrose and district yesterday.
From a height of 2000 feet this young pilot with his biplane crashed with terrific force to the ground, the aviator meeting death instantaneously—probably before he touched the ground—and the machine being smashed to atoms.
Body Sunk in the Ground.
His body penetrated a field of grass to a depth of four feet, and was frightfully mutilated.
His helmet and goggles were, however still on when he was discovered. The fatality is conjectured to have been the result of one of the wings failing, but a report was also heard to emanate from the machine, which was seen to turn turtle, and following upon this came like flash the apparent collapse of the aircraft.
The pilot, who was an expert aeronaut , had realised the gravity of the situation, and had loosened the waist strap ready for emergencies.
Within a few seconds, however, he was a corpse in a field on the border of the sands at Lunan Bay, while the biplane was a mass of fragments some 160 yards further south-east.
Beyond Human Aid.
The accident being observed from the aerodrome, several of the officers, with the medical orderly, hurried to the scene, and Dr Stone, military surgeon, Montrose, was immediately on the spot, but their services were of no avail.
The body of the gallant young airman placed in motor car and removed to the mortuary of Montrose Royal Infirmary while a guard was put on to protect the wreckage of the machine from public interference.
Lieutenant Arthur was about 30 years of age, and belonged to County Limerick. He was promoted lieutenant in the 5th Battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers on 27th May, 1911 and gazetted to the Royal Flying Corps on 14th April last. He joined No. Squadron a few days later.
A New Machine.
With other officers he went out for early morning reconnaissances from the aerodrome yesterday morning, and had charge of B.E, machine No. 205, which was piloted from South Farnborough to Montrose by Major Burke, who arrived with it on Saturday evening.
Prior to his fatal ascent he made a preparatorv flight, when the machine went beautifully. Captain Herbert, the flight commander for the day, made the initial flight for the purpose of testing the air, and the conditions were found to be ideal.
The deceased, with other pilots, then engaged in reconnaisances, and he made a beautiful ascent, no indications of any defect making their appearance until the machine was about a mile from the aerodrome and at an altitude of 2000 feet.
A report resembling peal of thunder was heard; the biplane turned somersault; like a speck on the horizon an object was observed in mid air, and in few seconds it had descended far enough to enable one to descry it be the pilot of the machine.
The biplane subsequently glided down by a series of rotary movements. Major Burke, commander, was on the scene, and directed investigations.
What the Eye-Witnesses Saw.
Interviewed by the "Courier" several eyewitnesses of the' catastrophe gave graphic accounts of how it happened.
Angus MacLeod, foreman platelayer, Braehead of Lunan, said the machine crossed over him at an altitude of 2000 feet, and immediately he heard what appeared to be thunder at a distance.
The machine then played somersault, and what he took be coat fell out. The machine then drifted in a south-easterly direction, and he observed the propeller still going.
In a second the left wing crumpled up, hardly had this occurred when he descried the body of a man diving through the air with feet downwards and hands stretched above the head. He saw the figure crash to the ground, feet first, about 200 yards east of Lunan Station.
From his position near Buckie Den Bridge he next saw the machine crcsh to the ground about 160 yards further east.
Stationmaster's Discovery.
Mr William Wynd, stationmaster at Lunan Bay, who was the rear of his house close by the scene of the fatality, was attracted by a grinding noise, and on glancing up observed the aeroplane from 300 to 400 yards the air.
The machine, Mr Wynd emphasised, did not come down like a stone, but by a series of somersaults while it still sailed along.
He was under the impression that had the aviator stuck to his machine he could have saved his life, because, while descending rapidly, there might have been opportunity of him escaping.
Thinking that the body of the pilot would be amongst tho wreckage, Mr Wynd made for the field in which the biplane lay in a heap, but in proceeding toward the spot he noticed a figure on the ground in the field adjoining.
He immediately turned in the direction where the aviator lay, with a view to succouring him, but on reaching the body found life to be extinct.
A dent had been made by the airman in his fall to a depth of from three to four feet.
Goggles Still Intact.
The ankles of the unfortunate pilot were reduced to pulp, but his injuries seemed to have been confined to the lower part of his body, as his helmet and goggles were still attached to his head.
From Panmure Barracks and the dock at Montrose other witnesses feared some catastrophe when they witnessed the machine rocking about in the air.
Various theories are advanced as to the cause the accident. One suggestion that the pilot was practising banking. Another is that the mishap was caused by an explosion, but the former theory is regarded as the more likely explanation of the terrible disaster.
From that story, it seems that the Aerodrome had definitely not yet moved from the Upper Dysart Farm aerodrome, 4 miles south of Montrose and very close to Lunan Bay. They moved 1 mile north of Montrose only by the end of 1913 according to Wiki, and the newspaper report seems to confirm this. So Masefield landing his plane on the Golf Course next to the later aerodrome location suggests the location of his experience was not the original location of this crash.
From the air accident report, and the newspaper articles, it's clear the pilot was seen falling from the plane, Masefield doesn't mention this, which again suggests his experience is somewhat different from the original details of this crash.
We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
(2018-07-01, 12:14 PM)Max_B Wrote: The official accident report from the archives of the Royal Aero Club gives some more more certain information... but nothing about the specific location...
Thanks for this. Charman dates the move of the airfield to 1 January 1914. I think it's significant that the official report refers only to "the Flying Ground at Montrose". Masefield appears to have seen the report (or at any rate some of the reports). But if he was unaware that the airfield had been elsewhere for its first year, he would have assumed this referred to its later location north of Montrose. So he set his ghost story there, rather than at the real crash site.