How Long Does a Human Head Actually Remain Conscious After Being Cut Off?

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(2019-04-30, 11:11 AM)Steve001 Wrote: The article also mentions "terminal depolarization" . I've seen it twice, have you seen it?

Yes I have. Smile
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(2019-04-30, 11:21 AM)Steve001 Wrote: Waiting breathlessly for Tim.

Wouldn't bother, he's not worth it.
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(2019-04-30, 11:04 AM)Steve001 Wrote: What's the difference between a any other organ transplant and a head transplant?

I already addressed that. The magnitude.

Also, this would be more akin to a hand transplant than an organ transplant. Attaching a head not only involves a key, and extremely sophisticated clusters of nerves, but also a lot of specialized tissue. Trachea transplant from cadavers has only just been performed (somewhat) successfully in the last few years. Try combining that with properly aligning many, many, neural connections, keeping both recipient and donor at adequate temperature, rebuilding a spine + melding the remnants of a brain that worked in conjunction to a different cord to that of the recipient...

And, even if you pull off a maratonic surgery that will undoubtedly require top notch medical personnel, you still will have to deal with rejection of a level that will likely require more than just suppressing an autoimmune response (i.e. rejection of the spinal cord will shut down all the other systems). Plus, a whole head will include a brain and we have absolutely no idea how an immune system would respond to that. For all we know, both recipient and donor will reject each other violently since there are going to be lymphocytes, ICOs, fibroblasts and many other things associated to these responses in the bone marrow of both. “Compatibility” (which it’s also not a silver bullet) by itself won’t solve this.
"Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before..."
(This post was last modified: 2019-05-01, 02:59 PM by E. Flowers.)
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(2019-04-30, 08:23 AM)Typoz Wrote: I'd say transplant rejection defers rather than answers the problem.

The idea of "heads in a jar" also doesn't address the 'whole-body consciousness' idea which I think is of interest, certainly not one to which we already have an answer. We can observe for example decapitated snakes and chickens, the snake head and chicken body continue to remain alive for some time.

Well, you can’t prove a negative and if nature itself precludes the possibility, then its a non-issue. I imagine that for one consciousness to influence another because they are connected physically, that would require the reconstituted body to be awake. And, I emphasize “physically” because this would be different from possession or other such phenomena where the interaction is on a mental level.
"Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before..."
I for one would assert that, even were it medically possible, I would think of it as a body transplant rather than a head transplant. Who is the donor and who is the recipient?  I imagine that the dead person is the donor and the recipient is the living one. So what determines who is dead? A body can be kept "alive" on a machine but can we restore consciousness to a "dead" brain (taking for granted that the brain and consciousness are linked even if we accept that they are not inseparable)? If so, whose consciousness? That of the donor or recipient?

Note that I used the word "who" several times. It is unavoidable because personality and identity - who we are - is part of our conscious life. So who survives as a recipient?

[EDIT] To correct my poor grammar: who's should be whose.
I do not make any clear distinction between mind and God. God is what mind becomes when it has passed beyond the scale of our comprehension.
Freeman Dyson
(This post was last modified: 2019-05-01, 07:04 PM by Kamarling.)
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(2019-05-01, 06:16 PM)Kamarling Wrote: I for one would assert that, even were it medically possible, I would think of it as a body transplant rather than a head transplant. Who is the donor and who is the recipient?  I imagine that the dead person is the donor and the recipient is the living one. So what determines who is dead? A body can be kept "alive" on a machine but can we restore consciousness to a "dead" brain (taking for granted that the brain and consciousness are linked even if we accept that they are not inseparable)? If so, who's consciousness? That of the donor or recipient?

Note that I used the word "who" several times. It is unavoidable because personality and identity - who we are - is part of our conscious life. So who survives as a recipient?
I'd have thought the description "body transplant" versus "head transplant" is not something we can decide upon until after we have answered the question posed by the rest of your post.
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(2019-04-30, 11:04 AM)Steve001 Wrote: What's the difference between a any other organ transplant and a head transplant?

In terms of rejection, there isn't. However, when you think about it...while this is meant to preserve the function of the head, rejection will come from the body and it will be the head which suffers the ill effects. 

Linda
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(2019-05-01, 06:43 PM)Typoz Wrote: I'd have thought the description "body transplant" versus "head transplant" is not something we can decide upon until after we have answered the question posed by the rest of your post.

Clearly I'm not qualified to answer that question either. I'd add, however, that we might be talking about different kinds (types, levels, degrees?) of consciousness. There's the type we associate with personality which might be that which separates in an OBE or NDE (or, indeed, death) and also the body consciousness itself - as in the consciousness of the cell or, perhaps the body systems (nervous system, endocrine system, etc.).
I do not make any clear distinction between mind and God. God is what mind becomes when it has passed beyond the scale of our comprehension.
Freeman Dyson
(This post was last modified: 2019-05-01, 07:17 PM by Kamarling.)
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(2019-05-01, 12:57 PM)tim Wrote: Wouldn't bother, he's not worth it.

Now don't bad mouth him.
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(2019-05-01, 02:57 PM)E. Flowers Wrote: I already addressed that. The magnitude.

Also, this would be more akin to a hand transplant than an organ transplant. Attaching a head not only involves a key, and extremely sophisticated clusters of nerves, but also a lot of specialized tissue. Trachea transplant from cadavers has only just been performed (somewhat) successfully in the last few years. Try combining that with properly aligning many, many, neural connections, keeping both recipient and donor at adequate temperature, rebuilding a spine + melding the remnants of a brain that worked in conjunction to a different cord to that of the recipient...

And, even if you pull off a maratonic surgery that will undoubtedly require top notch medical personnel, you still will have to deal with rejection of a level that will likely require more than just suppressing an autoimmune response (i.e. rejection of the spinal cord will shut down all the other systems). Plus, a whole head will include a brain and we have absolutely no idea how an immune system would respond to that. For all we know, both recipient and donor will reject each other violently since there are going to be lymphocytes, ICOs, fibroblasts and many other things associated to these responses in the bone marrow of both. “Compatibility” (which it’s also not a silver bullet) by itself won’t solve this.
Difficult certainly.

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