Dr Eben Alexander's new book

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(2018-04-27, 06:14 PM)Typoz Wrote: Which parts are "commercial enterprise" which are not also done by prominent figures on the sceptic side?  Are they also considered beyond the pale as a result?

The issue I have with Alexander when it comes to commercial exploitation is not that he wrote a book and made money - lots of very respectable and admired people do that - it is that money seemed to be his first and foremost motivation. While I'm personally uncomfortable with commercialisation in general, I have a particularly strong suspicion when there is a rush to publish a best seller and rake in the cash. 

Secondly, and I'm hoping that Tim can clear this up for us, his professional "mistakes" appear to have involved attempts at a cover-up and that most certainly compounds the suspicion and speaks to character. I really dislike ad homs and try to avoid them so I'll be as happy as anyone if Tim or Smithy can reassure us that it was all a big misunderstanding. However, as Malf pointed out, we should apply the same discretion from whichever side of the argument we stand. I remember, after having a long rant about Richard Wiseman some time ago, someone told me that he is a really nice guy when you meet him. Maybe he is but his bias is obvious and so are his motives for attempting to debunk every shred of evidence for the paranormal.
I do not make any clear distinction between mind and God. God is what mind becomes when it has passed beyond the scale of our comprehension.
Freeman Dyson
(This post was last modified: 2018-04-27, 07:31 PM by Kamarling.)
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  • malf
It makes little difference to the weight of NDE evidence whether Alexander is a charlatan or not. Many people find themselves in careers that don’t suit them and look for an opportunity to change. It appears that he had a couple of unsuccessful prior attempts. Good luck to him. 

He probably can’t help his supercilious appearance either :)
(2018-04-27, 07:43 PM)malf Wrote: It makes little difference to the weight of NDE evidence whether Alexander is a charlatan or not. Many people find themselves in careers that don’t suit them and look for an opportunity to change. It appears that he had a couple of unsuccessful prior attempts. Good luck to him. 

He probably can’t help his supercilious appearance either Smile

I don't think he does look supercilious, personally. What's wrong with his looks ? What do you look like, Malf ?

Edit: Bow tie=pompous tw#t ? That it ?
(This post was last modified: 2018-04-27, 08:22 PM by tim.)
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  • Smithy
(2018-04-27, 07:30 PM)Kamarling Wrote: The issue I have with Alexander when it comes to commercial exploitation is not that he wrote a book and made money - lots of very respectable and admired people do that - it is that money seemed to be his first and foremost motivation. While I'm personally uncomfortable with commercialisation in general, I have a particularly strong suspicion when there is a rush to publish a best seller and rake in the cash. 

Secondly, and I'm hoping that Tim can clear this up for us, his professional "mistakes" appear to have involved attempts at a cover-up and that most certainly compounds the suspicion and speaks to character. I really dislike ad homs and try to avoid them so I'll be as happy as anyone if Tim or Smithy can reassure us that it was all a big misunderstanding. However, as Malf pointed out, we should apply the same discretion from whichever side of the argument we stand. I remember, after having a long rant about Richard Wiseman some time ago, someone told me that he is a really nice guy when you meet him. Maybe he is but his bias is obvious and so are his motives for attempting to debunk every shred of evidence for the paranormal.

I doubt if I will be able to clear it up for you, Dave but I am trying.
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  • Kamarling
He’s having a great time. He’s certainly gone “all in”.

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  • Desperado
(2018-04-27, 08:35 PM)malf Wrote: He’s having a great time. He’s certainly gone “all in”.


Good shot, Malf

I don't know if Alexander knew who she was or not. You "Mayfair" better with your attempted character assassination
if you can produce a video with him saying something immoral.

Personally, I wouldn't have wasted any precious time talking to her about existentialism. get the picture Wink Just kidding
(This post was last modified: 2018-04-27, 10:53 PM by tim.)
(2018-04-27, 05:38 PM)Typoz Wrote: I'm not sure it is.

Sometimes I've read through numerous written accounts of NDEs, looking for one that could be called "typical". But the the more I study, the more it seems that each one is unique, and there is no such thing as a typical example.

They are and I believe that to be thanks to the apparent strong effect the mind has in shaping the reality and experience on the "other side". The little differences in perception between each experience. It would seem wherever these people are going is similar to where lucid dreamers go in their experiences. But that's another story. 

Michael Prescott is the guy I'm referencing as far as the apparent differences in Eben's experience go. I hadn't really thought about it the way he puts it in his article here (starts talking about his "problems" with Eben's NDE about half way through. I'd quote in the post but it's a lot of stuff): 

http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/micha...-life.html
Nevermind, I just good ahead and stick it up for everyone's convenience. In Michael's words:

Quote:I said this was the biggest problem I've had with Alexander's account. There are two other problems. One is that the experience really does seem like a drug trip. I've read accounts of DMT testing under controlled conditions by psychiatrist Rick Strassman, and the bizarre, hallucinatory narrative recounted by Alexander matches them very well. Though I've never taken hallucinogenic drugs myself, when I think of Alexander's book, the images that come to my mind are from the Beatles movie Yellow Submarine – imagery that was obviously inspired by LSD trips.

My other problem with Alexander's book is related but slightly different. His NDE is simply different in almost all respects from the standard NDE's that have been reported, documented, and tabulated for decades. I don't know of any other NDE where somebody reports flying around on the back of a giant butterfly, for instance. To me, one of the convincing features of NDEs is their relative consistency (taking into account cultural and personal differences). Alexander's NDE breaks the mold in so many ways that it is, at best, an outlier, and perhaps more plausibly, not a true NDE at all.
The fact is that Alexander's NDE is by no means the most convincing such case. It has been widely discussed because it is the first NDE, as far as I know, to be reported by a brain surgeon. Alexander's professional training and status provide his story with a certain intrinsic interest and perhaps make it more credible, to some people, than the account of (say) a plumber. But there are many other NDEs that boast more striking veridical details and which fit much more comfortably into established narrative patterns. 
(This post was last modified: 2018-04-27, 11:33 PM by Desperado.)
(2018-04-27, 10:50 PM)tim Wrote: Personally, I wouldn't have wasted any precious time talking to her about existentialism. get the picture Wink Just kidding

Boy, no kidding. I ought to try coming back from the brink some kind too Wink (just kidding as well) 

"I'll tell you all about the butterfly ride...back at my place"
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  • tim
(2018-04-27, 11:41 PM)Desperado Wrote: Boy, no kidding. I ought to try coming back from the brink some kind too Wink (just kidding as well) 

"I'll tell you all about the butterfly ride...back at my place"

I genuinely didn’t know about her career change/reinvention when I posted that video.

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