Consciousness during CPR

That's not right, though. Pam Reynolds reported what she'd experienced as soon as she woke up. It was witnessed by the surgeons. Her account was detailed and very accurate. No false memories or confirmation bias.

Penny Sartori's patient 10 was interviewed a mere three hours after his very accurate veridical experience. Michael Sabom's study was prospective and he was able to find over thirty veridical OBE's including six that were extremely detailed and verified as being accurate. They're not extremely rare.

Yes but Pam Reynolds was not in cardiac arrest. Anyway I’m not trying to dismiss every evidence with a one-liner. I think there’s plenty of sceptic arguments for every case. For me the new thing is that we know now that CPR can induce enough of blood flow for consciousness-like features. Another thing is that with all the awareness now vs 20 years ago about near death experiences I would expect the reports of ‘deep experiences’ from professionals like Sam Parnia to go up. It doesn’t seem to be the case. I think it will go with ndes as with Psychic mediums. All the best accounts happended a century ago....

Yes but Pam Reynolds was not in cardiac arrest. Anyway I’m not trying to dismiss every evidence with a one-liner. I think there’s plenty of sceptic arguments for every case. For me the new thing is that we know now that CPR can induce enough of blood flow for consciousness-like features. Another thing is that with all the awareness now vs 20 years ago about near death experiences I would expect the reports of ‘deep experiences’ from professionals like Sam Parnia to go up. It doesn’t seem to be the case. I think it will go with ndes as with Psychic mediums. All the best accounts happended a century ago....

Pam Reynolds heard a conversation when her brainwaves were flat. People in cardiac arrest with no intervention have flat brainwaves=zero brainwaves. In the second (veridical) part of her experience, she did go into cardiac arrest...after complete standstill that is, and during the rewarming process. 

Just because prolonged CPR seems to have produced some alpha waves in 2 patients, that doesn't in itself explain veridical out of body experiences. Consciousness like features doesn't equal veridical information gained from objects and people out of the visual reach of the patient, even if they had their eyes open. 

Parnia has only got 4 NDE's so far. The 20 % percentage mirrors Van Lommel's study nicely. It is what it is, numbers wise.

You mean when she was in burst suppression?

Yes in burst suppression, Max. That is synonymous with flat brainwaves. Remember I asked Dr Robert Spetzler this question and he should know. I also asked another neurosurgeon and he confirmed that barbiturate burst suppression achieves that. I can supply the email to Laird or Ian if required, just to add.

I'm just being accurate... because you get cycling periods of 'suppression' when EEG is flat (greater than 50% of the time), separated by 'bursts' of activity when the EEG is not flat (less than 50% of the time). Hence it's name Burst Suppression. The periods of activity do vary from as little as 0.5 seconds - up to 30 seconds... although the few EEG graphics I've looked at for induced burst suppression tend to show periods of activity lasting around 1.5 - 3 seconds.

Max said > "I'm just being accurate..."

No, Max, it's me that's being accurate, whereas you're just trying to open a window of opportunity (for yourself ?) in the pattern of burst suppression (used in neurosurgery to routinely flatten brainwaves). 

Even Gerry Woerlee accepts that burst suppression eliminates the possibility of any experience. He couldn't do anything else, because it's a fact.

This needs to be tossed in.

What our brain does after death

https://psiencequest.net/forums/thread-w...5#pid18015

Pam Reynolds heard a conversation when her brainwaves were flat. People in cardiac arrest with no intervention have flat brainwaves=zero brainwaves. In the second (veridical) part of her experience, she did go into cardiac arrest...after complete standstill that is, and during the rewarming process. 

Just because prolonged CPR seems to have produced some alpha waves in 2 patients, that doesn't in itself explain veridical out of body experiences. Consciousness like features doesn't equal veridical information gained from objects and people out of the visual reach of the patient, even if they had their eyes open. 

Parnia has only got 4 NDE's so far. The 20 % percentage mirrors Van Lommel's study nicely. It is what it is, numbers wise.

Number wise surely. Van Lommel's study was very good in that regard.

I just can't accept the rest as true when it never happens in a controlled environement. 

I have two explainations for this in mind:
1) NDEs aren't supernatural, so they are a mix of false memories, investigator bias, external stimuli got during CPR and more.
2) some force is keeping us from having a true, certified "hit" in controlled environement. As crazy as it sounds, I find this option possible. getting validated and bulletproof NDEs would shake up the world so much, having actual proof of afterlife, that it would cause enormous change. Maybe someone "up there" doesn't want it? Who knows.