Psience Quest

So I think I've mentioned in some anxiety video threads through the years that I have some personal issues. Early childhood trauma that colored my whole life (and still does) and can come up and manifest in strong anxiety & extremely painful feelings and obsessional thinking (meaning thinking about the future all the time). Meds, therapy, the whole lot has been with me for a long time. Now I'm doing QiGong as well. Certain life contexts and my willingness to face the feelings more has made it more intense over the past year or so, even though I've had good periods through all this, and the last 10 days were pretty excruciating. The feeling is a convincing one that I will be left alone in the world, feeling like a 2-year-old, defenseless, helpless, and with no one at all to "be with" emotionally. Abandoned basically, with all the solitude/depression and feelings of annihilation that comes with it. (Which is why I say I'm more of afraid of life than what comes after physical death). It's irrational but it can be completely convincing and take up my whole mind and make me look for "solutions".

I'm told by my helpers (living! not in spirit! ) including my acunpuncturist who is going to try EFT on me, that it's part of the healing process and actually means, paradoxically, that I'm where I should be.

Anyway all this to say that Tuesday, going through my normal workday, I was fighting such states, including a lot of being hijacked by my mind again. To the point where I thought I was going to explode. And I'm talking to people during my work so it's quite a challenge, because I have to be "thinking" and relating while all this is going on inside. But late in the day, while still talking to someone, I started focusing on my breathing and basically just focusing on the sense of "being" (pure consciousness) and I suddenly felt extremely different - not just symptom free, but with a sense of being completely at peace, and having a sense of "myself" or my body as more porous. As if everything around me was part of "me". It was something that felt beyond the psychological and the physical. I felt completely connected or at one with everything and absolutely fearless and ready for anything to happen, just completely peaceful and accepting. There was definitely disidentification with the normal "me". And it wasn't dissociation from emotion because I felt extremely grateful and could almost cry for joy. I kept thanking God or the spirits for this moment of grace. There was also a complete lack of thinking, without any effort. I knew it would eventually pass and it did (it still lasted more than an hour, including the whole drive home), and I've had very rough moments since, but I just wanted to write this down to make a note of it, and share it.

I don't know what it is or means, it's definitely an "altered state of consciousness" that's for sure, meaning not the "normal' habitual sense of self. I thought of Eckhart Tolle's awakening except he just stayed in that place and never left it.  I knew mine would likely past, I was prepared for that. But it's something to hope for, without "striving" for it.

I don't buy into all of the ideas in non-dual philosophy or spirituality but it's clear to me that investigating and continuing to use non-dual teachings (focusing on the "I am", on being pure consciousness) contributed to my being able to suddenly access that.

I just created a Facebook page and decided to "follow" Mooji, because he's a Vedanta/non-dual teacher whose videos I often find helpful. Today there was this post of his on my feed that definitely speaks to me:

Be grateful for the mind,
whose role it is to molest
the false version of yourself and
its world and dealings,
until it becomes unbearable
and you are left with no choice
but to give it up and realise you are
already Home. This is Grace.
~ Mooji

Spaciousness is a word I come back to to attempt to describe the experience. Like I was suddenly the space around "me" as well as "me", like I was the connection as well as what was connected. And it was a felt experience, not intellectual.

(2023-06-30, 01:17 AM)Ninshub Wrote: [ -> ]it still lasted more than an hour, including the whole drive home

Wow - is it possible and safe to drive in an altered state of consciousness of that magnitude - or does it make you more aware?

Without sliding into politics, I do wonder if there is some sort of "psychic attack" on the Earth right now - everyone seems slightly mad right now.

David

I wasn't "out of it",  I was fully present. There was both the regular me  - I could still feel a truck passing by me close and having my normal vigilance - but the "fear" was absent or incredibly reduced, and this spaciousness and peace was surrounding, identifying or feeling a unity with everything surrouding (the other vehicles, the trees alongside the road, the sky, the space, everything). You could definitely say it felt like I was more present and aware, yes.

This meditative awareness is already something I practice often, and I find driving (especially on the highway) is a perfect practicing ground, but this time the effects were almost "otherworldly" in terms of the level of intensity of the "presence" or "spaciousness", or quite outside the usual range for me.

Hi , your experience reminded me of something from a few weeks ago which I recorded here, Accidental Shift in Perception

Even if you are describing something different I'm glad that you found a state where things fall away for a while.


In the linked thread I wrote that the experience lasted at least thirty minutes. I recall it persisted with less intensity for several days afterwards.

I think there are pathways which we can open more easily when we have followed it at least once. In my case I don't have any kind of regular spiritual practice and have to remind myself to focus on rediscovering a state which I know is available.

The experience you describe could be "like" enlightenment. But there are various opinions and definitions of what enlightenment is and what it is like.  

A good rule of thumb is to wait a year to see if any changes are permanent before deciding if an experience really is enlightenment. 

Usually a first enlightenment "experience" is just the beginning and there is a lot of work to be done to achieve full enlightenment.

This article describes different types of enlightenment:

https://inquiringmind.com/article/2701_w...htenments/


I think the gateless gate is the most common - and I also think that is what Shinzen Young is talking about in this interview when he says most of his students awaken gradually.

https://www.lionsroar.com/on-enlightenme...zen-young/

Many people do have enlightenment experiences where they experience something noticeable. That type of experience attracts the most attention but is not the most common so I think it's worth pointing that out for the silent majority because some people get stuck in a blind alley waiting for something they are already past.

Enlightenment is not what most people think. It doesn't necessarily make you a nice person. And for most people it doesn't end suffering completely. I don't think it cures emotional issues that have a strong biological basis whether that is genetic or developmental. However it can help eliminate reactive emotions that someone has in reaction to the unavoidable emotions. When the mind is calm from a lot of meditation and the mental chatter is very quiet, emotions can seem more like physical sensations than a cloud over reality. And physical pain is also easier to bear when the mental anguish is eased by meditation.

(2023-06-30, 11:55 AM)Typoz Wrote: [ -> ]Hi , your experience reminded me of something from a few weeks ago which I recorded here, Accidental Shift in Perception

Even if you are describing something different I'm glad that you found a state where things fall away for a while.


In the linked thread I wrote that the experience lasted at least thirty minutes. I recall it persisted with less intensity for several days afterwards.

I think there are pathways which we can open more easily when we have followed it at least once. In my case I don't have any kind of regular spiritual practice and have to remind myself to focus on rediscovering a state which I know is available.

Thanks for reminding me, Typoz. Reading your account again, there's definitely similarities. Although of course we're struggling to put words on experiences that are ineffable.

One teacher I'm particularly interested in is Judith Blackstone, whom I've mentioned before, and I plan to follow up more on what she has to say and offer. She's both a psychologist and someone who has experienced the ineffable if you will, and studied a ton of Asian practices (Zen, Vedanta, etc. etc.). Her approach towards enlightenment (Realization Process) is that we don't lose sense (or seek to) of our individualized self (and don't therefore go into the danger of spiritual bypassing of our wounds, etc.) but add this sense of spaciousness and "fundamental consciousness", in a way that is felt and experienced somatically/experientially, not just as a intellectual knowing. "Spaciousness" I notice is a word she returns to a lot.

(2023-06-30, 01:17 AM)Ninshub Wrote: [ -> ]So I think I've mentioned in some anxiety video threads through the years that I have some personal issues. Early childhood trauma that colored my whole life (and still does) and can come up and manifest in strong anxiety & extremely painful feelings and obsessional thinking (meaning thinking about the future all the time). Meds, therapy, the whole lot has been with me for a long time. Now I'm doing QiGong as well. Certain life contexts and my willingness to face the feelings more has made it more intense over the past year or so, even though I've had good periods through all this, and the last 10 days were pretty excruciating. The feeling is a convincing one that I will be left alone in the world, feeling like a 2-year-old, defenseless, helpless, and with no one at all to "be with" emotionally. Abandoned basically, with all the solitude/depression and feelings of annihilation that comes with it. (Which is why I say I'm more of afraid of life than what comes after physical death). It's irrational but it can be completely convincing and take up my whole mind and make me look for "solutions".

I'm told by my helpers (living! not in spirit! ) including my acunpuncturist who is going to try EFT on me, that it's part of the healing process and actually means, paradoxically, that I'm where I should be.

Anyway all this to say that Tuesday, going through my normal workday, I was fighting such states, including a lot of being hijacked by my mind again. To the point where I thought I was going to explode. And I'm talking to people during my work so it's quite a challenge, because I have to be "thinking" and relating while all this is going on inside. But late in the day, while still talking to someone, I started focusing on my breathing and basically just focusing on the sense of "being" (pure consciousness) and I suddenly felt extremely different - not just symptom free, but with a sense of being completely at peace, and having a sense of "myself" or my body as more porous. As if everything around me was part of "me". It was something that felt beyond the psychological and the physical. I felt completely connected or at one with everything and absolutely fearless and ready for anything to happen, just completely peaceful and accepting. There was definitely disidentification with the normal "me". And it wasn't dissociation from emotion because I felt extremely grateful and could almost cry for joy. I kept thanking God or the spirits for this moment of grace. There was also a complete lack of thinking, without any effort. I knew it would eventually pass and it did (it still lasted more than an hour, including the whole drive home), and I've had very rough moments since, but I just wanted to write this down to make a note of it, and share it.

I don't know what it is or means, it's definitely an "altered state of consciousness" that's for sure, meaning not the "normal' habitual sense of self. I thought of Eckhart Tolle's awakening except he just stayed in that place and never left it.  I knew mine would likely past, I was prepared for that. But it's something to hope for, without "striving" for it.

I don't buy into all of the ideas in non-dual philosophy or spirituality but it's clear to me that investigating and continuing to use non-dual teachings (focusing on the "I am", on being pure consciousness) contributed to my being able to suddenly access that.

I just created a Facebook page and decided to "follow" Mooji, because he's a Vedanta/non-dual teacher whose videos I often find helpful. Today there was this post of his on my feed that definitely speaks to me:

Be grateful for the mind,
whose role it is to molest
the false version of yourself and
its world and dealings,
until it becomes unbearable
and you are left with no choice
but to give it up and realise you are
already Home. This is Grace.
~ Mooji

what sorts of therapy have you undertaken, and for how long?

Hey Max, I don't think I want to get into too much personal detail there (there's already plenty!). But feel free to let me know what you think helps.

(2023-07-01, 02:26 PM)Ninshub Wrote: [ -> ]Hey Max, I don't think I want to get into too much personal detail there (there's already plenty!). But feel free to let me know what you think helps.

No worries, you mentioned therapy (I think of it as personal development) just wondered what type, if it was CBT, or Talking Therapy (and what types?)... I tried CBT but although it works, it was just a sticking plaster. I did the talking therapy for 7 years (50 minutes a week). For one year with a drama/arts therapist, and then six years with a integrated therapist.