A new
paper: Discrepancy Between Cerebral Structure and Cognitive Functioning, A Review (Michael Nahm, PhD, David Rousseau, PhD, and Bruce Greyson, MD).
Quote:"...several cases involving brain dysplasias (abnormal cell development) and brain lesions (cell damage) indicate that large amounts of brain mass and its organic structures, even entire hemispheres, can be drastically altered, damaged, or even absent without causing a substantial impairment of the mental capacities of the affected persons. These exceptional individuals display a notable discrepancy between the condition of their cerebral structures and the quality of their cognitive functioning."
(The paper explains how some neurophysiologists have theorized that extensive reorganization of neural functioning (neural plasticity) into a thin remaining layer of neurons is responsible for such cases. At this point this is just speculation. Mostly, such cases are just ignored.)
Quote:"Indeed, one might wonder whether such processes of reorganization are purely self-organizing processes of neuronal tissue in response to external stimuli, or whether the mind or “the self ” actively participates in these processes. Several studies suggest that the brain can indeed be altered by mental stimuli and processes on the molecular, cellular, and neural circuit levels. In a review focusing on neuroimaging studies, Beauregard (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/dow...1&type=pdf) summarized examples of mental influence on brain structure from research into emotional self-regulation, psychotherapy, and placebo experiments. He concluded that these studies strongly support the view that thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and volition do exert a causal influence on brain plasticity, and he pointed to the obvious fact that mental causation is an essential ingredient for successful therapies. This is, of course, also valid for patients who train to regain lost faculties after strokes, hemispherectomy, or brain injuries. The degree of success in rewiring the brain is clearly dependent on the patients' volition and purposeful training. According to Beauregard (in the same paper), such findings call into question positions in which all mental processes are thought to be entirely reducible to biochemical processes."
Comment: any valid neurocognitive theory has to account for such extreme cases of normal or even high mental functioning despite severe brain deficits due to conditions like hydrocephalus or brain injury, and also cases of savant syndrome, that are summarized in this paper. The prevailing materialist mind=brain concepts have grave difficulties here.
(2017-12-26, 09:05 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: [ -> ]A new paper: Discrepancy Between Cerebral Structure and Cognitive Functioning, A Review (Michael Nahm, PhD, David Rousseau, PhD, and Bruce Greyson, MD).
(The paper explains how some neurophysiologists have theorized that extensive reorganization of neural functioning (neural plasticity) into a thin remaining layer of neurons is responsible for such cases. At this point this is just speculation. Mostly, such cases are just ignored.)
Comment: any valid neurocognitive theory has to account for such extreme cases of normal or even high mental functioning despite severe brain deficits due to conditions like hydrocephalus or brain injury, and also cases of savant syndrome, that are summarized in this paper. The prevailing materialist mind=brain concepts have grave difficulties here.
My how quick are we to imply magical beliefs are a better interpretation analogous to ufo = extraterrestrial aliens. Your approach suffers because it has no backbone.
(2017-12-27, 11:09 AM)Max_B Wrote: [ -> ]Yep, greater loss of internal white matter compared to outer grey matter in these hydrocephalus cases. Grey matter apparently being the more important neuronal/cortex stuff. The brain seems capable of dealing with a range of insults, but seems to cope better with the rewiring, if the process causing the insult is slow, compared to fast changes, where it can't seem to change fast enough.
We know by now that the EM fields that the brain creates in everyday use, feed-back upon the brain's structure itself, entraining it's networks. So I agree, the brains processes are not just electro-chemical, there are important EM field processes going on too, and they look like excellent candidates for involvement in brain plasticity.
There seems little doubt that memory is tied to the brain, but it seems to me that my memory does not exist in isolation. As a simple example, I can write a reminder to myself on a scrap of note paper, which seems to extend my memory abilities, and shows that I have the ability to manipulate matter and energy to store access to my memories within nature, so that I can later re-access my memories, and/or also share that note with others. In memory terms, the brain can't really be very much different from the note paper. It's made from similar basic stuff to everything else in nature.
I get a great deal more clarity on these questions when I think about nature, and my experience of it, as coming about as the 'result' of the 'processing' of 'information'. And that this 'information' is actually stored quite differently to the 'result' which I experience. I think we've probably got muddled up by believing that the 'result' (what I experience) is the 'information', but I suggest it isn't, that is only the 'information' after it's been 'processed'.
I believe EM fields arise from the electrochemical processes. They don't exist as separate things.
(2017-12-27, 12:33 PM)Max_B Wrote: [ -> ]Up until quite recently, EM fields created by electrochemical processes in the brain (what we measure with EEG) were thought to only be an epiphenomena, just a by-product of what the brain does, but there is quite a lot of evidence now that these fields feedback onto the brain. Logically, this means that all fields within which the brain is embedded (internally and externally generated) appear to have to potential to affect the brain.
Does a dead brain produce EM fields? There are many EM fields within the environment. Which particular EM fields are you referring to? Which of the multitudes correspond to the ones directly seen within the brain?
So... Now we are dismissing postures as "magical beliefs"? Holy shit Steve, even you can't be that shallow.
(2017-12-27, 09:00 PM)E. Flowers Wrote: [ -> ]So... Now we are dismissing postures as "magical beliefs"? Holy shit Steve, even you can't be that shallow.
I really do get tired of hearing the flimsiest reasons remarkable brain functioning despite trauma indicates this is a problem for materialism. Such expression is miraculous because it cannot explain how it is a better explanation.
And there you go again. I frankly don't think that are smart enough to be that arrogant or to arbitrarily determine what evidence is flimsy. By now you know damn well his arguments, since he has discussed them ad nauseam in other threads, so don't try to isolate this one to make it seem like he is simply proselytizing (playing threads for the lurkers is getting old and boring, BTW). Also, I would not be referencing "miracles" when it comes to this topic, your own posture requires a little one called emergence, which is still as unexplained as ever despite getting significantly more funding to prove it accurate than the alternatives.
(2017-12-27, 03:26 PM)Max_B Wrote: [ -> ]Well, the most interesting EM fields for me are the very weak patterned EM fields, where we have for example, plenty of behavioral studies showing effects in animals exposed to weak oscillating magnetic fields, and also Prato et al 2013 showing hyperweak oscillating MF's mediate post traumatic stress like behavior in rodents. But these fields seem far too weak for heating/chemical effects to be responsible for the researchers results. These fields are very weak, it's quite amazing they have any effect on the behavior of animals, some studies have shown effects from fields as low as 1 nanoTesla, that's about 40,000 times weaker than the local geomagnetic field, but most are around 1000 times weaker. One would have thought the effect from such weak fields would have been drowned out by more powerful competing fields.
The results from these studies are a challenge, so researchers are having to consider new mechanisms... a variety have been proposed, but none appear as yet to solve all the issues. The most interesting recent paper I have read suggests that we start considering a mechanism at a more fundamental level, one operating on the magnetic moment of the organism itself.
My only issue is your statement electromagnetic radiation brain activity is not a direct result of brain activity.
A few excerpts from the paper, thought-provoking to all except closed-minded materialists.
Concerning extreme hydrocephalus:
Quote:"The most remarkable and well-known case concerns a highly intelligent student of mathematics. ...The aforementioned student of mathematics had a global IQ of 130 and a verbal IQ of 140 at the age of 25, but had “virtually no brain”..."
(a brain scan showed, instead of the normal 4.5-cm thickness of brain tissue between the vesicles and the cortical surface, there was just a thin layer of mantle measuring about a millimeter. His cranium was filled mainly with cerebrospinal fluid.)
Quote:"Still, the student apparently developed normally throughout his childhood. ....his vision was perfect apart from a refraction error. Nevertheless, later studies showed the apparent absence of a visual cortex..."
Concerning memory processing, especially in savants:
Quote:"In this respect, Kim Peek (1951–2009) was most remarkable in that he seemed to possess a perfect memory: he forgot nothing he ever read and remembered complete melodies, even if he heard them only once. Most remarkably, his brain showed considerable malformations that included a deformed cerebellum, abnormalities of the left hemisphere, and the complete lack of the corpus callosum, as well as the anterior and posterior
commissures. In addition, much of the skull interior comprised empty areas that were filled with cerebrospinal fluid, as in hydrocephalic subjects. Nevertheless, he memorized more than 12,000 books, apparently verbatim, the contents of which amounted to an encyclopedic knowledge in multiple areas of interest. Typically, he would read a page in eight to ten seconds, and then turn to the next page. He even read two pages of smaller books such as paperbacks simultaneously, using one eye each for each page. Moreover, he had impressive calendar calculating abilities.
One may wonder about a plausible neural mechanism to explain Peek's ability to remember practically everything."
...............................
Quote:"...it remains unknown how the barrier to savant skills can be overcome, especially on a neurophysiological level... How activated circuits of neurons, being under constant input stimuli, can mediate the perfect memorizing of every single piano note heard is still essentially unknown. This is an important issue because, as Treffert noted, no model of brain function, in particular with regard to memory, will be complete until it can account for these remarkable feats. This appraisal is, of course, also valid for memory processing with only one hemisphere (examples given elsewhere in the paper).
Moreover, it is important to recall that the fundamental question of how biochemical reactions of molecules and electrical activities of neurons are translated into self-conscious experience, including autobiographical memory, intentionality, and volition, is still unsolved."
(2017-12-27, 09:23 PM)Steve001 Wrote: [ -> ]I really do get tired of hearing the flimsiest reasons remarkable brain functioning despite trauma indicates this is a problem for materialism. Such expression is miraculous because it cannot explain how it is a better explanation.
To be fair, if you’re tired of hearing it, you don’t have to be here. You could just choose not to respond.