2018-04-01, 11:29 AM
The thread Hjortron posted on the Keith Augustine interview got me thinking about what the best NDE case was - one which can stand on its own in terms of whether or not the perceptions were essentially impossible - which can get the attention of the broader scientific community.
The best case would be one which was documented under blind conditions, and contains elements which are at least highly improbable, if not impossible. I don't know of any which satisfies those conditions.
The closest one I know of would be the one Penny Sartori reported on here. The conditions weren't completely blind, as prior to Penny coming on the scene, the subject told the medical team (who were present during the event and therefore not blind) about his experience and that interaction is undocumented. And Penny also was not blind to the events, and she provides information to the patient throughout her recorded interviews (some of which she goes on to attribute to the patient in her published case report).
There aren't any documented "impossible or highly improbable" perceptions in that case either. The perceptions which were documented are interesting at best. The one perception which gets close is "The blonde lady therapist boss, she was panicking; she looked nervous because she was the one who got me out in the chair. She hid behind the curtains, but kept poking her head around to check on me," but was never mentioned by the patient in Penny's recorded interviews of the patient. Nor was Penny present or a record made when he reportedly first made this observation to the medical team.*
Despite that, if we go ahead and accept that he used those words, then it's at least "improbable" that he observed this with a reduced level of consciousness. So this case seems (as in I am unaware of any other) unique with respect to the amount which has been documented under somewhat blind conditions and still contains special elements.
Experiences like that of Pam Reynolds, where we don't have documentation under blind conditions, aren't particularly useful, as can be seen in the Keith Augustine thread. A copy of the operative report and the EEG/SSEP/BAEP readings are useful, whereas statements based on non-blinded recollection allow for endless bickering.
Does anyone know of any other documented cases that are as good or better than Sartori's?
Linda
*The medical team told Penny what the patient had said. She went to the patient's bedside after the medical team had moved on, and "while taking notes, I asked Patient 10 to repeat what he had communicated to the team..." (https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/675...7969/m1/4/) Penny's notes have not been published and when asked about them a few years ago, she wasn't sure where they were. Although the subject repeats all the other details of his experience (and offers up new details) in the recorded interviews, he never mentions this, despite Penny's promptings. The recorded interviews have been published (https://www.amazon.com/Near-Death-Experi...077345103X) and the rest of the material which Penny presents as direct quotes in the paper can be found in the transcripts. For example, the original transcript reads "One doctor was saying, 'There's life in the eye.' I could also see Penny, who was a nurse,..."
The best case would be one which was documented under blind conditions, and contains elements which are at least highly improbable, if not impossible. I don't know of any which satisfies those conditions.
The closest one I know of would be the one Penny Sartori reported on here. The conditions weren't completely blind, as prior to Penny coming on the scene, the subject told the medical team (who were present during the event and therefore not blind) about his experience and that interaction is undocumented. And Penny also was not blind to the events, and she provides information to the patient throughout her recorded interviews (some of which she goes on to attribute to the patient in her published case report).
There aren't any documented "impossible or highly improbable" perceptions in that case either. The perceptions which were documented are interesting at best. The one perception which gets close is "The blonde lady therapist boss, she was panicking; she looked nervous because she was the one who got me out in the chair. She hid behind the curtains, but kept poking her head around to check on me," but was never mentioned by the patient in Penny's recorded interviews of the patient. Nor was Penny present or a record made when he reportedly first made this observation to the medical team.*
Despite that, if we go ahead and accept that he used those words, then it's at least "improbable" that he observed this with a reduced level of consciousness. So this case seems (as in I am unaware of any other) unique with respect to the amount which has been documented under somewhat blind conditions and still contains special elements.
Experiences like that of Pam Reynolds, where we don't have documentation under blind conditions, aren't particularly useful, as can be seen in the Keith Augustine thread. A copy of the operative report and the EEG/SSEP/BAEP readings are useful, whereas statements based on non-blinded recollection allow for endless bickering.
Does anyone know of any other documented cases that are as good or better than Sartori's?
Linda
*The medical team told Penny what the patient had said. She went to the patient's bedside after the medical team had moved on, and "while taking notes, I asked Patient 10 to repeat what he had communicated to the team..." (https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/675...7969/m1/4/) Penny's notes have not been published and when asked about them a few years ago, she wasn't sure where they were. Although the subject repeats all the other details of his experience (and offers up new details) in the recorded interviews, he never mentions this, despite Penny's promptings. The recorded interviews have been published (https://www.amazon.com/Near-Death-Experi...077345103X) and the rest of the material which Penny presents as direct quotes in the paper can be found in the transcripts. For example, the original transcript reads "One doctor was saying, 'There's life in the eye.' I could also see Penny, who was a nurse,..."