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The OBE. Good Goal or Playing With Fire?
#1
Is doing the OBE a valid "goal" either on a "spiritual" path or simply as a consciousness explorer? Or is it traversing a border that most people were never meant to cross?
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#2
My opinion is that most techniques that claim to produce OBE's, if they work, produce lucid dreams - it is very rare to get verifiable information from induced OBEs. No one that I am aware of can leave their body at will, go where ever they want, and come back with information they could not have obtained through normal means.

http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/10/out-o...-fake.html


If you are looking for a way to experience psi, I recommend keeping a dream log - most people notice precognitive dreams when they do this.

http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/04/keepi...aving.html

https://archive.org/download/AnExperimen...thTime.pdf
The first gulp from the glass of science will make you an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you - Werner Heisenberg. (More at my Blog & Website)
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#3
I do think there is a difference between the two--OBEs and lucid dreams. But I don't think that you can necessarily bring back verifiable information simply because you went out of the body.

Simply "getting out of the body" is a huge hurdle for 99% of people, I think. Being able to do it at will and go where one wants and bring back information--those kinds of ideas come from people who really haven't read a lot of literature on the OBE or haven't tried very hard to become a practitioner. Even the most experienced practitioners don't have complete control once they are out of the body.

(I use the phrase "getting out of the body" as a metaphor. I don't really think anything is "leaving the body" per se.)

The type of OBE I am talking about is a consciously induced OBE. You go from being conscious, most likely into a vibrational state, and then into a process where the "astral" body separates completely from the physical. This is distinctly different from lucid dreaming.

It may be the case that one can end up in the same non-physical territories in certain OBEs and lucid dreams, but the path to get there is radically different.
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#4
What about those who have spontaneous OBEs? Are they "more spiritual" even though they didn't ask for it?
I know a couple of people who have had many of those, with the natural consequence of getting freaked out at varying degrees... at least until they found somebody to talk to who could explain what was going on.
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#5
(08-30-2017, 03:40 PM)Bucky Wrote: What about those who have spontaneous OBEs? Are they "more spiritual" even though they didn't ask for it?
I know a couple of people who have had many of those, with the natural consequence of getting freaked out at varying degrees... at least until they found somebody to talk to who could explain what was going on.

Good question. That kind of gets to the gist of my initial question. Is the OBE something very natural? Something that one shouldn't be wary of having, whether spontaneously or by working toward that goal?

When I was first interested in doing the OBE I thought of it as a kind of pure consciousness exploration tool. Kind of value neutral. 

Now a few years later I am much more aware of the idea that non-physical reality is likely chock full of entities that may not have good intentions toward others. I'm also quite sure that these entities can attach to humans in some ways, whether permanently or on a temporary basis.

I know that there are techniques that magicians and OBE practitioners use to "protect" themselves from these entities. But there is so little concrete knowledge about the non-physical that I wonder how sure the average explorer can be that they are adequately protecting themselves. And for those having spontaneous OBEs, what can they do?
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#6
(08-30-2017, 04:35 PM)chuck Wrote: When I was first interested in doing the OBE I thought of it as a kind of pure consciousness exploration tool. Kind of value neutral. 

Now a few years later I am much more aware of the idea that non-physical reality is likely chock full of entities that may not have good intentions toward others. I'm also quite sure that these entities can attach to humans in some ways, whether permanently or on a temporary basis.

No doubt about that. If this reality is part of a larger landscape I don't see how the latter could be all unicorns and rainbows.
While I am sympathetic to the so-called "non dualist" philosophy I think it's not very wise to sweep under the rug the very dualistic nature of this reality and probably that of many more higher planes...
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#7
(08-30-2017, 02:37 PM)chuck Wrote: I do think there is a difference between the two--OBEs and lucid dreams. But I don't think that you can necessarily bring back verifiable information simply because you went out of the body.

Simply "getting out of the body" is a huge hurdle for 99% of people, I think. Being able to do it at will and go where one wants and bring back information--those kinds of ideas come from people who really haven't read a lot of literature on the OBE or haven't tried very hard to become a practitioner. Even the most experienced practitioners don't have complete control once they are out of the body.

(I use the phrase "getting out of the body" as a metaphor. I don't really think anything is "leaving the body" per se.)

The type of OBE I am talking about is a consciously induced OBE. You go from being conscious, most likely into a vibrational state, and then into a process where the "astral" body separates completely from the physical. This is distinctly different from lucid dreaming.

It may be the case that one can end up in the same non-physical territories in certain OBEs and lucid dreams, but the path to get there is radically different.
Snip- But I don't think that you can necessarily bring back verifiable information simply because you went out of the body.

That's true. And you need to consider the extra variable that the stuff that you see, is NOT necessarily an exact representation of the physical space in question. There are usually large reported differences that demonstrate your OBE is experienced in a similar but not identical environment. It it considered by many as an "astral version" of of reality.

So those pictures on the wall may be different. Or maybe not be there at all. And maybe there are two windows in your bedroom instead of one. Or maybe the rug is blue and not red. Or maybe your friend is washing his car and not reading a book. 

The inconvenient truth is- even if you got a clear and unambiguous look at something in the OBE, sometimes the information you bring back is a match, and other times it is not. Kinda makes absolute veridical attempts unreliable. 

Which explains one of many reasons the scientific method needs to rely on statistics and not absolute hits and misses, in many psi situations.
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#8
@jkmac It is true that many OBEs are inexact, yet very close copies, of physical reality. A few years back, I 'missed' an OBE launch point, well, I thought I had because I found myself in my front yard. I thought. Wondering how the hell did I get from the couch to lying in the grass? Then two interlocked 'people' holding hands walked by and started talking to me, I'm thinking...."whoa, I'm OBE in a very, very similar physical reality but just a hair difference".

As soon as I started thinking about physical realty as I knew it, I returned. Hardest part. Keeping focused on where you are not where you left...so to speak.

Then there are OBE where you find yourself, intentionally or not, in such strange and unusual places that when you return, the physical mind, just like in dreamstates, tries to make sense of the experience using symbols and images that are more commonplace in physical reality. Yes, it gets confusing. Dodgy
Existence is not subject to time; time is subject to Existence.
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#9
(08-30-2017, 04:35 PM)chuck Wrote: I know that there are techniques that magicians and OBE practitioners use to "protect" themselves from these entities. But there is so little concrete knowledge about the non-physical that I wonder how sure the average explorer can be that they are adequately protecting themselves. And for those having spontaneous OBEs, what can they do?

First, my dearest chuck, you have a belief that you need protection which, ultimately, attracts those who can feed of this negative approach (energy). What is it that they can do to you at the very worst? Kill you? So what?

You create your physical reality, which by definition means that you are laden down with BS beliefs (not your fault) that need to be reexamined in light of your True Self. An immortal, infinite, indestructible being.

So which do you desire to place your trust? In your completeness or in your incompleteness? Your choice, one is just as simple as the other.
Existence is not subject to time; time is subject to Existence.
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#10
(09-01-2017, 08:47 AM)Brian Wrote: I think as far as spirituality is concerned, like other paranormal or seemingly paranormal phenomena, OBEs are a distraction from the path - a by product rather than the goal ahead.  It is often taught in both eastern scools and western occultism to ignore such or at least to not draw conclusions from such experiences.  I would say a truly spiritual path relies more on adapting attitudes and understanding than on experiences.  I'm sure the experiences are a lot of fun along the way though!

This so-called 'byproduct' is exactly what you are here for. The process. Build the house then live in it. Why remove yourself from the most important experiences by labeling them otherwise? If you choose to have the experience of invalidating the process, go right ahead but your missing the entire boat-point in doing so.

Unless, of course, the whole point of your existence in physical reality is to miss the boat.
Existence is not subject to time; time is subject to Existence.
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