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Sam Parnia in Newsweek article
#1
Sam Parnia is quoted in this Newsweek article:

Where Do You Go When You Die? The Increasing Signs That Human Consciousness Remains After Death
by Kastalia Medrano
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#2
There's quite a lively discussion going on below that article. I'm not surprised by the range of opinions on the matter. What is of more direct interest to me is how familiar or otherwise, commentators are with the evidence (many have strong views but a poor grasp of the evidence).

I'm always interested in what Parnia has to say, as in my experience he usually avoids over-reaching and says only that which can be backed up by evidence. In the closing paragraph, he says,
Dr Sam Parnia Wrote:“I don’t mean that people have their eyes open or that their brain’s working after they die. That petrifies people. I’m saying we have a consciousness that makes up who we are—our selves, thoughts, feelings, emotions—and that entity, it seems, does not become annihilated just because we've crossed the threshold of death; it appears to keep functioning and not dissipate. How long it lingers, we can’t say.”

Interesting here is that not only is he saying that consciousness is not annihilated - he's said that before. But also he clarifies, "it appears to keep functioning and not dissipate".
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#3
(02-14-2018, 04:04 PM)Typoz Wrote: There's quite a lively discussion going on below that article. I'm not surprised by the range of opinions on the matter. What is of more direct interest to me is how familiar or otherwise, commentators are with the evidence (many have strong views but a poor grasp of the evidence).

I'm always interested in what Parnia has to say, as in my experience he usually avoids over-reaching and says only that which can be backed up by evidence. In the closing paragraph, he says,

Interesting here is that not only is he saying that consciousness is not annihilated - he's said that before. But also he clarifies, "it appears to keep functioning and not dissipate".

Takes a while for the organisms cells to die after the heart and lungs have stopped functioning. Whilst the cells are still viable, AWARE seems to be suggesting that 'experience' is still possible, and that the organism may only be behaviorally unconscious.
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#4
An interesting question just brought up twice in this article is: How long does consciousness last after death? I asked Tim how long it lasts, his reply was forever and most would likely agree, but does it?
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#5
(02-15-2018, 12:38 PM)Steve001 Wrote: An interesting question just brought up twice in this article is: How long does consciousness last after death? I asked Tim how long it lasts, his reply was forever and most would likely agree, but does it?
Steve,

You have been seeing me try to show that things may sort themselves out, once we looking only at physical properties, but look for informational relationships as well.  Time and space may have corresponding states in an informational environment.  I am surely not qualified to parse the issue - but think its fun to think about.

Maybe awareness doesn't last after death in physical time - but continues to communicate with its environment as a SoA (state of affairs) enabled by informational structure.  Line-up 10 entangled ytterbium atoms and you can play some trickster with time.

Here is an exciting article (at least for a geek like me) -where we are still discovering stuff that shows that there new ways to understand how the universe works.

https://www.sciencealert.com/it-s-offici...reate-them

Quote: Fast-forward a few years, and American and Japanese researchers showed that this could be possible, with one major tweak to Wilczek's proposal - in order to get time crystals flipping their states over and again, they needed to be given a 'nudge' every once in a while.

In January this year, Norman Yao described how such a system could be built, describing it to Elizabeth Gibney at Nature as a "weaker" kind of symmetry violation than Wilczek had imagined.

"It's like playing with a jump rope, and somehow our arm goes around twice, but the rope only goes around once," he says, adding that in Wilczek's version, the rope would oscillate all by itself.

"It's less weird than the first idea, but it's still fricking weird." 
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#6
(02-15-2018, 12:38 PM)Steve001 Wrote: An interesting question just brought up twice in this article is: How long does consciousness last after death? I asked Tim how long it lasts, his reply was forever and most would likely agree, but does it?

"I asked Tim how long it lasts, his reply was forever"

I don't think I said that, Steve. I probably said I personally believe it does. For what it's worth I just stick to what the leading researcher(s) say about it... that it appears to continue in the first stage after death.

Your question is rather puzzling for me but not because of that. I thought you were a "when you're dead, you're dead" kinda guy ? Are you saying that you now accept what Parnia is telling us ? If you do, you're on dodgy ground for a materialist because even the concept of the mind existing for ANY time after the brain's electrical activity has ceased is unthinkable (no pun intended)
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#7
(02-15-2018, 02:42 PM)tim Wrote: "I asked Tim how long it lasts, his reply was forever"

I don't think I said that, Steve. I probably said I personally believe it does. For what it's worth I just stick to what the leading researcher(s) say about it... that it appears to continue in the first stage after death.

Your question is rather puzzling for me but not because of that. I thought you were a "when you're dead, you're dead" kinda guy ? Are you saying that you now accept what Parnia is telling us ? If you do, you're on dodgy ground for a materialist because even the concept of the mind existing for ANY time after the brain's electrical activity has ceased is unthinkable (no pun intended)

My comment was a general reply. Tim's long ago reply likely jives with a majority view.
I've for years heard it claimed consciousness persists after death. The question I've never heard is: For how long?


 Not in the slightest am I persuaded by Mr. Parnia's research. Frankly, I have no idea what happens after death and for that one reason alone I have no opinion one way or another. Though I have no firm opinion it should noted no one has after thousands of years shown incontrovertible evidence of life after death. I'm pragmatic.

I don't identify myself as a materialist. That's what others do. I just go along. My position is don't argue what might be true, what you want to be true and what you think is true. It's show me it's true. If that isn't done then it's all just hopeful thinking.
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#8
(02-15-2018, 05:15 PM)Steve001 Wrote: My comment was a general reply. Tim's long ago reply likely jives with a majority view.
I've for years heard it claimed consciousness persists after death. The question I've never heard is: For how long?


 Not in the slightest am I persuaded by Mr. Parnia's research. Frankly, I have no idea what happens after death and for that one reason alone I have no opinion one way or another.

I don't identify myself as a materialist. That's what others do. I just go along. My position is don't argue what might be true, what you want to be true and what you think is true. It's show me it's true. If that isn't done then it's all just hopeful thinking.Though I have no firm opinion it should noted no one has after thousands of years shown incontrovertible evidence of life after death. I'm pragmatic.

............"I've for years heard it claimed consciousness persists after death. The question I've never heard is: For how long?

I don't understand what you mean. People who believe in consciousness after death either think it lasts for eternity or they are reincarnated (again). As there probably is no time in this other dimension it may not matter but that's just my opinion.

Not in the slightest am I persuaded by Mr. Parnia's research.

Who's research would you be persuaded by then ?

Frankly, I have no idea what happens after death and for that one reason alone I have no opinion one way or another.

Really ? You must have an idea. It surely has at least occurred to you.  By logical deduction alone you can conceive of two ideas. One is oblivion and the other is still existing.. as is so commonly reported.

Though I have no firm opinion it should noted no one has after thousands of years shown incontrovertible evidence of life after death. I'm pragmatic.

That's sounds more like dogma(tic) to me. Incontrovertible evidence ? Very few things are incontrovertible. It's incontrovertible that we have a mind, I think you would agree with that at least. Whether in can continue to function after the brain has ceased to, is the big question. 

Do you not think it's interesting that many people/patients report separating from their physical body and seeing it as if it was something they had left behind ? Does that not provide a clue that there's more ?
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#9
(02-15-2018, 01:38 PM)stephenw Wrote: Steve,

You have been seeing me try to show that things may sort themselves out, once we looking only at physical properties, but look for informational relationships as well.  Time and space may have corresponding states in an informational environment.  I am surely not qualified to parse the issue - but think its fun to think about.

Maybe awareness doesn't last after death in physical time - but continues to communicate with its environment as a SoA (state of affairs) enabled by informational structure.  Line-up 10 entangled ytterbium atoms and you can play some trickster with time.

Here is an exciting article (at least for a geek like me) -where we are still discovering stuff that shows that there new ways to understand how the universe works.

https://www.sciencealert.com/it-s-offici...reate-them
 
By

Speculation is fun, but if it leads nowhere that's all it is. Too often people forget they're speculating.
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#10
(02-15-2018, 06:41 PM)tim Wrote: ............"I've for years heard it claimed consciousness persists after death. The question I've never heard is: For how long?

I don't understand what you mean. People who believe in consciousness after death either think it lasts for eternity or they are reincarnated (again). As there probably is no time in this other dimension it may not matter but that's just my opinion.

Not in the slightest am I persuaded by Mr. Parnia's research.

Who's research would you be persuaded by then ?

Frankly, I have no idea what happens after death and for that one reason alone I have no opinion one way or another.

Really ? You must have an idea. It surely has at least occurred to you.  By logical deduction alone you can conceive of two ideas. One is oblivion and the other is still existing.. as is so commonly reported.

Though I have no firm opinion it should noted no one has after thousands of years shown incontrovertible evidence of life after death. I'm pragmatic.

That's sounds more like dogma(tic) to me. Incontrovertible evidence ? Very few things are incontrovertible. It's incontrovertible that we have a mind, I think you would agree with that at least. Whether in can continue to function after the brain has ceased to, is the big question. 

Do you not think it's interesting that many people/patients report separating from their physical body and seeing it as if it was something they had left behind ? Does that not provide a clue that there's more ?

I'll give two answers. You are to quick to drawing conclusions.  Cut the dogmatic crap. It's an over used and distorted accusation.
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