Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Physical Mediumship
#1
Please note, this thread is in the Extended Consciousness Phenomena review forum rules that apply before posting to this thread.

This post has been moved here from a different thread please disregard the x'd out text.

There is some fraud and some genuine, and some of the evidence said to prove fraud has been found to be deliberately falsified. Also some faked evidence of fraud may have not been detected as fake, so there may be some physical mediumship believed to be fraud that is actually genuine.

You should demand the same high level of proof from skeptics claiming fraud as you demand from people claiming evidence of paranormal phenomena. Sometimes people accept any accusation of fraud at face value but too often the assertions of skeptics do not hold up under close scrutiny (http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/sk...sdirection).

This is a very good site for articles on genuine physical mediumship:
http://zerdinisworld.com/

From my own web site and blog: ...

Nobel prize winning physicist Pierre Curie studied physical mediumship and found it is real:
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/e...erre_curie

Quote:According to the "Occultism & Parapsychology Encyclopedia"
...

On July 24, 1905, Pierre Curie reported to his friend Gouy: "We have had a series of séances with Eusapia Palladino at the [Society for Psychical Research]."

It was very interesting, and really the phenomena that we saw appeared inexplicable as trickery—tables raised from all four legs, movement of objects from a distance, hands that pinch or caress you, luminous apparitions. All in a [setting] prepared by us with a small number of spectators all known to us and without a possible accomplice. The only trick possible is that which could result from an extraordinary facility of the medium as a magician. But how do you explain the phenomena when one is holding her hands and feet and when the light is sufficient so that one can see everything that happens?[13]

http://www.answers.com/topic/eusapia-palladino

Charles Richet Nobel Prize winner in Physiology and Medicine studied physical mediumship and found the phenomena was genuine
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/e...ers_richet
Quote:However, while conducting in his own research, he observed the evidence proving what he called four fundamental facts of metapsychics: cryptesthesia (his term for the phenomena of mediumship), telekinesis, ectoplasm, and premonitions. He wrote:
Therefore:

1. There is in us a faculty of cognition that differs radically from the usual sensorial faculties (Cryptesthesia).

2. There are, even in full light, movements of objects without contact (Telekinesis).

3. Hands, bodies, and objects seem to take shape in their entirety from a cloud and take all the semblance of life (Ectoplasms).

4. There occur premonitions that can be explained neither by chance nor perspicacity, and are sometimes verified in minute detail.

Such are my firm and explicit conclusions.

William Crookes who invented the cathode ray tube studied physical mediumship and found it was real.
http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2009/05/telek...-1871.html
Quote:Telekinesis Proved In 1871
William Crookes tested the psychic Daniel Dunglas Home in 1871 and proved telekinesis is real. He tested Home in laboratory conditions that prevented fraud. Crookes even jumped up and down on the apparatus to prove it couldn't be moved by Home if he tried to cheat.

Crookes' book, Researches into the Phenomena of Modern Spiritualism, has diagrams of the equipment and wind-up chart recorder graphs showing the spontaneous movements.

It even has a drawing of the cage in which the accordion was seen to be playing itself.
http://www.survivalafterdeath.info/libra...gation.htm



http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/p/articles-an..._ectoplasm
Quote:Jack Webber Photos
http://www.survivalebooks.org/Webber/webberphotos.htm

[Image: webber24.jpg]
[Image: webber23.jpg]

You can read about the provenance of the photos here:
Quote:Medium Jack Webber Zerdini: "Leon Isaacs, who took the photographs at Webber’s circles, used two cameras placed at different angles…shots using this two-camera technique showed the disposition of trumpets and other objects, establishing that they were not held aloft by any material agency."
http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/05/mediu...ebber.html

more photos and provenance...
Quote:Photos of Seances taken by Sven Türck. "The Danish psychic researcher and photographer Sven Türck took many photos of Jonsson's psychokinetic powers, protected against any form of cheating through strict controls in his laboratory."
http://mariondampier-jeans.com/%e2%97%8f...ven-turck/
English Translation http://translate.google.se/translate?sl=...ven-turck/

Photos from MarionDampeier-Jeans.com take during seances.
https://web.archive.org/web/201301170419.../pictures/
[Image: Boerge-Michaelsen-levitation-i-luften-un...00x238.jpg]
Quote:The Physical Mediumship of Einer Nielsen "This tribute comes from a pastor of the Swedish State Church ... 'Twice I have sat in the cabinet and kept hold of the medium’s hands. The ectoplasm came directly through his clothes. One figure that of Rita, rose up from the ectoplasm grasped my arm, and we went out together to the sitters and talked with them.'"
http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/12/last-...ks-to.html




Magicians cannot reproduce the phenomena of physical mediumship and other paranormal abilities under conditions that psychics produce those phenomena.
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/s...cies_magic
Quote:...
Will Goldston, one of Europe's leading professional magicians, author of 40 works on sleight of hand, and founder of the Magicians' Club of London, testified in a national newspaper (the Daily Sketch) that 'I am convinced that what I saw [at a Rudi Schneider séance organized by Harry Price] was not trickery. No group of my fellow- magicians could have produced those effects under such conditions.' Goldston also spoke up for independent voice medium Hazel Ridley and for Helen Duncan (who may have been another who used mixed mediumship) and was sufficiently impressed by physical phenomena actually to become a spiritualist. Both David Abbott and Howard Thurston, contemporaries of Houdini and two of America's best-known magicians, confessed their conviction in the genuineness of physical phenomena (like Goldston, Thurston also became a spiritualist).
...
Samuel Bellachini was the Court Conjuror for Emperor William I at Berlin. Bellachini investigated the controversial American medium Henry Slade. The sittings were not only held in darkness, but some were in full daylight. Bellachini was convinced that the results were not due to trickery.

The famous historical medium, Eusapia Palladino, readily admitted herself that she used trickery when she could. Skeptics have often thus dismissed positive reports of her phenomena. But no less than Howard Thurston [a well known magician] believed in some of her results and said so in the New York Times. Thurston was nevertheless well aware of her trickery.


False accusations of fraud:


https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/s...ion_duncan
Quote:During World War II, the British medium Helen Duncan brought through the spirit of a sailor who had died when his war ship was sunk. The Admiralty had wanted to keep information about the sinking secret to protect public morale. Because of this leakage of secret information, the British government feared that spirits might also reveal the plans for the D. Day invasion of Europe through Duncan's mediumship. As a result, an employee of the Admiralty brought the police to a seance held by Duncan and she was imprisoned on trumped up charges of fraud....

As a debunking exercise the case failed miserably.  Skeptics must have winced at the daily reporting of case after case where 'dead' relatives had materialised and given absolute proof of their continued existence . One Kathleen McNeill, wife of a Glaswegian forgemaster, told how she has attended such a séance at which her sister appeared. Her sister had died some a few hours previously, after an operation, and news of her death could not have been known. Yet Albert, Helen Duncan's guide, announced that she had just passed over.

...


Mary Blackwell, President of the Pathfinder Spiritualist Society of Baker Street London, testified that she had attended more than 100 materialization séances with Helen Duncan at each of which between 15 and 16 different entities from the afterlife had materialized. She testified that she had witnessed the spirit forms conversing with their relatives in French, German, Dutch, Welsh, Scottish and Arabic. She claimed that she had witnessed the manifestation of ten of her own close relatives including her husband, her mother and her father all of whom she had seen up close and touched.

...

This case was an outrageous example of a government abusing it's power, using deception to suppress mediumship. Normally, the type of complaint made against Duncan would have been treated as a minor offense. When first arrested, the police charged her with vagrancy which would have been punished with a fine of up to five shillings. However, Duncan was denied bail and the charges were changed several times by the prosecutors. They finally settled upon pretending to conjure spirits under an archaic witchcraft act which was punishable by a prison sentence. This was an unprecedented overreaction. No other medium of that era was ever treated in this way. The only explanation for this miscarriage of justice is that the government wanted Duncan held incommunicado in prison during the time leading up to the D. Day invasion of Europe to prevent spirits from accidentally leaking secret information. That Duncan was denied bail for this minor and non-violent offense is further proof of this explanation.  


The case would have been handled in an entirely different manner if the government truly believed Helen Duncan was committing fraud. In that case, she would have been given a small fine and sent on her way. The only reason Helen Duncan was denied bail and sent to prison for fraud was because her mediumship was genuine.

https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/s...on_houdini
Quote:Houdini was invited to investigate Mina Crandon; in a series of sittings he was unable to debunk her. Finally, in one sitting, just as Mina was about to start she suddenly said (while allegedly in a trance and controlled by her spirit guide Walter) that Houdini's assistant had planted a folding ruler in the cabinet that she occupied and that he meant to produce this ruler as evidence that she was cheating.

https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/s...tion_price
Quote:Price was also deceptive about the evidence he used to denounce the medium Rudi Schneider. During his investigation of Schneider, Price used a system of stereo cameras with flashes to take pictures of movements made by the medium during seances. One picture, Price alleged, showed Schneider cheating during a seance. However, when viewed in stereo, the picture actually shows the medium couldn't have done what Price accused him of doing. This episode is described in full on the harryprice.co.uk web site:
The stereoscopic pictures show that Rudi would have to be an orang-utan to reach the handkerchief from the position shown, and his arm is not extended towards the table.

...

Price's whole case against Rudi rests on this one set of ambiguous photographs. The stereoscopic evidence suggests that the double exposure was an accident which Price wrongly and wrongfully exploited when it suited him.
The first gulp from the glass of science will make you an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you - Werner Heisenberg. (More at my Blog & Website)
[-] The following 4 users Like Jim_Smith's post:
  • jkmac, Ninshub, Pssst, Sciborg_S_Patel
Reply
#2
The photos that show the various levitations are particularly interesting in that they show no ectoplasmic pseudopodia. There are photos of Jack Webber for instance where the trumpet is sen fully attached to, and causing the motion of, the seance trumpet.

Modern PMs rarely support levitation on its own. The only instance I can think of atm is Warren Caylor's levitation in full light out of his cabinet chair into the sitting arena.

The movement of items in the sitting arena is accomplished by ectoplasmic extensions emanating from the PM's body. It's a matter of which you might see as more 'advanced', levitation or the use of ectoplasmic 'arms' to pick up items and move them at rates of speed hardly imaginable. Playing the drums with flair, timing and with the quickness of Buddy Rich and the heavy handedness of John Bonham.

Or in the case of D. D. Home for e.g., he was capable of both extensions and levitation.
Existence is not subject to time; time is subject to Existence.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Pssst's post:
  • Ninshub
Reply
#3
(09-01-2017, 08:27 AM)Jim_Smith Wrote: Please note, this thread is in the Extended Consciousness Phenomena  review forum rules that apply before posting to this thread.

This post has been moved here from a different thread please disregard the x'd out text.

There is some fraud and some genuine, and some of the evidence said to prove fraud has been found to be deliberately falsified. Also some faked evidence of fraud may have not been detected as fake, so there may be some physical mediumship believed to be fraud that is actually genuine.

You should demand the same high level of proof from skeptics claiming fraud as you demand from people claiming evidence of paranormal phenomena. Sometimes people accept any accusation of fraud at face value but too often the assertions of skeptics do not hold up under close scrutiny (http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/sk...sdirection).

This is a very good site for articles on genuine physical mediumship:
http://zerdinisworld.com/

From my own web site and blog: ...

Nobel prize winning physicist Pierre Curie studied physical mediumship and found it is real:
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/e...erre_curie


Charles Richet Nobel Prize winner in Physiology and Medicine studied physical mediumship and found the phenomena was genuine
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/e...ers_richet

William Crookes who invented the cathode ray tube studied physical mediumship and found it was real.
http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2009/05/telek...-1871.html



http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/p/articles-an..._ectoplasm

[Image: webber24.jpg]
[Image: webber23.jpg]

You can read about the provenance of the photos here:

more photos and provenance...
[Image: Boerge-Michaelsen-levitation-i-luften-un...00x238.jpg]




Magicians cannot reproduce the phenomena of physical mediumship and other paranormal abilities under conditions that psychics produce those phenomena.
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/s...cies_magic


False accusations of fraud:


https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/s...ion_duncan

https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/s...on_houdini

https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/s...tion_price
Lots of stuff here to chew on.

One thing I will say is the photos of ectoplasm always look to me like fabric. 

Now I don't have personal experience with the stuff, but I imagine if it does exist, it is a bit more similar to a thick liquid or a gel, than a 2 dimensional sheet of material. 

Is it possible that I am just looking at fake photos claimed to be ectoplasm or am I misinterpreting what I'm seeing or perhaps, is it really a sheet of material rather than a mass?
[-] The following 1 user Likes jkmac's post:
  • Ninshub
Reply
#4
(09-03-2017, 12:39 PM)jkmac Wrote: Lots of stuff here to chew on.

One thing I will say is the photos of ectoplasm always look to me like fabric. 

Now I don't have personal experience with the stuff, but I imagine if it does exist, it is a bit more similar to a thick liquid or a gel, than a 2 dimensional sheet of material. 

Is it possible that I am just looking at fake photos claimed to be ectoplasm or am I misinterpreting what I'm seeing or perhaps, is it really a sheet of material rather than a mass?

Ectoplasm is formed in a structure best suited to it's purpose. Materialized spirits do not look like their skin is made out of  cloth. In cases where ectoplasm does look like cloth, that is because that form serves the purpose it is being used for.  Fiberglass also looks like cloth.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiberglass

[Image: 220px-Glass_reinforcements.jpg]
The first gulp from the glass of science will make you an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you - Werner Heisenberg. (More at my Blog & Website)
[-] The following 1 user Likes Jim_Smith's post:
  • Ninshub
Reply
#5
(09-01-2017, 09:10 PM)Pssst Wrote: The photos that show the various levitations are particularly interesting in that they show no ectoplasmic pseudopodia. There are photos of Jack Webber for instance where the trumpet is sen fully attached to, and causing the motion of, the seance trumpet.

Modern PMs rarely support levitation on its own. The only instance I can think of atm is Warren Caylor's levitation in full light out of his cabinet chair into the sitting arena.

The movement of items in the sitting arena is accomplished by ectoplasmic extensions emanating from the PM's body. It's a matter of which you might see as more 'advanced', levitation or the use of ectoplasmic 'arms' to pick up items and move them at rates of speed hardly imaginable. Playing the drums with flair, timing and with the quickness of Buddy Rich and the heavy handedness of John Bonham.

Or in the case of D. D. Home for e.g., he was capable of both extensions and levitation.

Not all mediums use ectoplsam for levitation, particularly those who produce the effect in full light such as D.D. Home. Also note the quote in my post above by Pierre Curie which mentions movement of objects at a distance in good light but does not mention ectoplasmic pseudopodia.
The first gulp from the glass of science will make you an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you - Werner Heisenberg. (More at my Blog & Website)
Reply
#6
(09-03-2017, 01:19 PM)Jim_Smith Wrote: Ectoplasm is formed in a structure best suited to it's purpose. Materialized spirits do not look like their skin is made out of  cloth. In cases where ectoplasm does look like cloth, that is because that form serves the purpose it is being used for.  Fiberglass also looks like cloth.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiberglass

[Image: 220px-Glass_reinforcements.jpg]

Being in the process of rebuilding a sailboat I am all-too familiar with what f-glass cloth looks like  Sad

What you say makes sense,,, 
but have you personally seen the stuff? Is is dry or wet? Does it smell? Has anyone here touched it? Is it slimy? Does any of it stay behind or is it all reabsorbed? I've heard of it emanating from mouth but also from skin in general.

I have read about tests where the medium is weighed during a session and the weight is substantial and it does reduce the weight of the medium by the same amount. I seem to remember 30 lbs or so.
[-] The following 1 user Likes jkmac's post:
  • Ninshub
Reply
#7
A recent interview with physical medium Scott Milligan, mentioned in another thread as critical of some recent physical mediumship trends:


Reply
#8
(09-03-2017, 02:18 PM)jkmac Wrote: ...but have you personally seen the stuff? Is is dry or wet? Does it smell? Has anyone here touched it? Is it slimy? Does any of it stay behind or is it all reabsorbed? I've heard of it emanating from mouth but also from skin in general.

I have read about tests where the medium is weighed during a session and the weight is substantial and it does reduce the weight of the medium by the same amount. I seem to remember 30 lbs or so.

Slightly moist to semi-dry, never slimy imo, had it laid on my head by Caylor's spirit control Yellow Feather. Picked it up, had it cover my legs...seen it move across the floor, minor remnants can be left behind but they are very, very small amounts usually felt as a stickiness on objects, smell ranges from none to ozonic and an occasional increased humidity in the immediate area of the ectoplasm. 

Most modern PMs hydrate during the day and still are very thirsty post-seance. Water loss is substantial.
Existence is not subject to time; time is subject to Existence.
Reply
#9
(09-03-2017, 06:01 PM)Ninshub Wrote: A recent interview with physical medium Scott Milligan, mentioned in another thread as critical of some recent physical mediumship trends:



Never seen him, he cancelled a seance in AFC when they took the stance that all PMs sessions must be in full light so missed that opportunity.

There is 'talk' about Scott, that's all I care to say.
Existence is not subject to time; time is subject to Existence.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Pssst's post:
  • Ninshub
Reply
#10
(09-03-2017, 06:17 PM)Pssst Wrote: Never seen him, he cancelled a seance in AFC when they took the stance that all PMs sessions must be in full light so missed that opportunity.

There is 'talk' about Scott, that's all I care to say.
Yet that would seem to go against what he's saying in the Facebook post. Confused

EDIT: Some reports on Scott's mediumship:
http://www.victorzammit.com/articles/sco...seance.htm
http://snppbooks.com/blog/index.php/2015...al-medium/
Photos about his work on his website:
http://www.scottmilligan.net/about-scott/
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)