On Scientific American: Consciousness Goes Deeper Than You Think

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(2017-09-20, 07:14 PM)jkmac Wrote: This is one of my points of departure with Tom Campbell. He says that only "high level" creatures have consciousnesses. 

People, monkeys, dogs,,,, of course. 
Ants? Of course not.
Dolphins? Of course. 
Trees? Of course not. 
Rocks? OF COURSE NOT!

It's completely arbitrary. Makes no sense to me.

While I would say that consciousness is ubiquitous, I wouldn't say that all conscious experience equates to the human conscious experience. Humans seem to have a particularly highly tuned and focused form of consciousness which allows self-awareness and the sense of "I am". Trees might have a radically different form of awareness attuned to the environment they exist in and perhaps nothing like the awareness of time that humans have. 

I can't imagine how a rock might experience consciousness but perhaps, by putting the question the other way around, we might gain some insight: how does consciousness experience being a rock?
I do not make any clear distinction between mind and God. God is what mind becomes when it has passed beyond the scale of our comprehension.
Freeman Dyson
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(2017-09-20, 07:42 PM)Brian Wrote: I am familiar with the book and Lyall Watson has mentioned it I am sure.  Maybe in Supernature.  I have to admit the evidence is intriguing but being the incurable skeptic that I am I need more evidence before I will commit myself.

Bottom line is: if you buy into any of that stuff (which I do) you need to acknoledge that there is a lvel of consciousness in everything. 

Are you familiar with the frozen water experiments in Japan? 

Same thing shows up: signs of consciousness.
(2017-09-20, 08:34 PM)Kamarling Wrote: While I would say that consciousness is ubiquitous, I wouldn't say that all conscious experience equates to the human conscious experience. Humans seem to have a particularly highly tuned and focused form of consciousness which allows self-awareness and the sense of "I am". Trees might have a radically different form of awareness attuned to the environment they exist in and perhaps nothing like the awareness of time that humans have. 

I can't imagine how a rock might experience consciousness but perhaps, by putting the question the other way around, we might gain some insight: how does consciousness experience being a rock?

Of course one wouldn't expect the consciousness of a plant to equate to a human. 

First of all there's the whole difference in sense organs and nervous system.

But also the assumed difference in cognition.

So although there would certainly be a difference in the quality of conscious experience, it makes sense to me that in all things there is an aspect of consciousnesses. And as I've previously mentioned, it would explain a few things...
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(2017-09-21, 06:06 AM)Brian Wrote: No but I would like to find out.

jkmac might be referring to the distant intention experiments on water crystal formation conducted by Dean Radin and Masaru Emoto in 2006:

http://www.deanradin.com/papers/emotoIIproof.pdf

I was one of the participants grading the sample photos in terms of "beauty" and "interest", and I have to say that the great majority of the nearly formless blobs I observed was neither beautiful nor interesting to me. I graded the blobs using ad hoc relative scales of beauty and interest loosely based on the amount and shape of crystalline structures evident in the photos.

It's very possible that I also graded blob photos in the pilot study, because Dean announced both studies, providing links to the photos, to members of the GotPsi Yahoo group to which I was an occasional contributor.
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(2017-09-21, 06:06 AM)Brian Wrote: No but I would like to find out.

Well, not surprisingly there are lots of detractors of the work. And maybe rightfully so. Controls were weak.
(This post was last modified: 2017-09-26, 07:56 PM by jkmac.)
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"Consider your breathing right now: the sensation of air flowing through your nostrils, the movements of your diaphragm, etcetera. Were you not experiencing these sensations a moment ago, before I directed your attention to them? Or were you just unaware that you were experiencing them all along? By directing your attention to these sensations, did I make them conscious or did I simply cause you to experience the extra quality of knowing that the sensations were conscious?"

I don't think I was experiencing them a moment ago. If we define consciousness as some process about which we are not aware, then don't we render the term useless? What does it mean to have unexperienced experience?

~~ Paul
If the existence of a thing is indistinguishable from its nonexistence, we say that thing does not exist. ---Yahzi
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(2017-09-20, 07:14 PM)jkmac Wrote: This is one of my points of departure with Tom Campbell. He says that only "high level" creatures have consciousnesses. 

Then there is hs comment that "personal identity is simply a consciousness that has evolved as a result of all the choices (intents) a person has made in conjunction with all the people and objects with whom that person has interacted."

I agree with the majority of TOE but Tommy keeps getting off into the weeds too often for me to follow.
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(2017-09-26, 08:53 PM)Pssst Wrote: Then there is hs comment that "personal identity is simply a consciousness that has evolved as a result of all the choices (intents) a person has made in conjunction with all the people and objects with whom that person has interacted."

I agree with the majority of TOE but Tommy keeps getting off into the weeds too often for me to follow.

You and me both.
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