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Locks and Keys
#1
Maybe this should be a different thread, maybe not. It is after all a continuation of the question about evidence. (yes, I’m still trying to crack that nut…)

Was thinking after part of a good night’s sleep, of an analogy that might work. 

Here’s what came to mind: 
evidence is really a key, and the lock it fits, is on a door- the door to where we each keep our beliefs.  

We all protect our beliefs. In many ways they define who we are at a deep level. Some of us (like my lovely wife for example) subscribe to the idea that “I am who I am, and I’m not going to change”. That may or may not be really true, but at a cursory level it indicates to me that this person isn’t looking for new beliefs that might replace old ones. 

OTOH: some people are actively searching, for whatever reason. Perhaps it’s simple curiosity, or looking for an explanation of something that they’ve encountered. Maybe it is just some niggling itch that needs to be scratched,  or maybe it is red hot ball of molten metal in the middle of their gut that cannot be ignored. Whatever the reason, these people are looking for answers. 

But any answer will not do. The answer must fit the lock on their personal door: if it doesn’t, it’s just noise to them.

I think I have said here and on Skeptiko, that part of my journey seems to be learning for the sake of sharing with others who are searching for information about their true nature and the true nature of reality. We all have a different path and this seems to be a major part of mine. 

Unknowingly, it seems like what I have been doing for these 8-10 years of browsing at the all-you-can-eat consciousness buffet, is collecting information, and various types of proof... I have been collecting keys. 

And when I come across someone who has a question, I see if I can find a key that is appropriate to the question and fits their door. Maybe it is on my key ring, maybe I need to go in search of one.

Quite often, especially on this site, I find that lots of keys do not fit the locks. This is to be expected as less rigorous people have already gotten satisfactory answers, or have moved on already, or are just not interested in actively searching.  I have found further at this site, that locks are constantly changed “in the middle of the night”. It’s almost like the person who is managing/guarding the door to the belief room, is trying to stay one step ahead of those who are trying to pick the lock. (I hope this analogy isn’t getting way off track).  

So this brings us back to the subject of evidence, once again.  Horror

If people on this site are looking in good faith for answers tho their questions, I would like to know more about what type of key WOULD fit the lock. This way, any of us can see if there is evidence out there that might be a fit. 

And if people are hanging about on this site who have no interest in seeing if a key fits, I would ask: what are you doing here? Is it just idle curiosity? Boredom? The thrill of battle? A crusade to kill all things psi?

So the question I have for the people who are interested- can you tell us: 
What does compelling evidence look like to you? 
What particular questions does the evidence need to answer for you? 
Can you say: if I saw this, I would be convinced.

BTW: Just saying “the evidence needs to be 'scientific' " doesn’t get to the matter, if it did we would have already put this question to bed some time ago. 

No, I think that each person has a personal set of questions that need to be addressed, and one way to find the evidence for that person is to understand the size and shape of the lock on the door.
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#2
(09-16-2017, 09:46 AM)jkmac Wrote: So the question I have for the people who are interested- can you tell us: 
What does compelling evidence look like to you? 
What particular questions does the evidence need to answer for you? 
Can you say: if I saw this, I would be convinced.

BTW: Just saying “the evidence needs to be 'scientific' " doesn’t get to the matter, if it did we would have already put this question to bed some time ago. 

No, I think that each person has a personal set of questions that need to be addressed, and one way to find the evidence for that person is to understand the size and shape of the lock on the door.
For me?

Reincarnation held the master key. The evidence is bountiful. Although perhaps not up to particular scientific benchmarks, the variety of stories covering time and distance, and containing significant evidence, was enough for me to get over the hump of doubt in the existence of a non-physical substrata of our reality.

Once past that door, I have satisfied various doubts in the varied aspects of existence such as: NDE, OBE, post death existence, etc.

I'm at a point now that after accepting these things based on sufficient evidence for me, I am concentrating on the details of how this stuff works, and not whether it exists. And, as I said previously, in helping others look at the data.
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#3
(09-16-2017, 11:44 AM)jkmac Wrote: I'm at a point now that after accepting these things based on sufficient evidence for me, I am concentrating on the details of how this stuff works, and not whether it exists.
This is where I'm at too, and probably a fair amount of forum members.
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#4
(09-16-2017, 03:25 PM)Ninshub Wrote: This is where I'm at too, and probably a fair amount of forum members.

I assume so. 

But I would really like to hear from others about what their lock looks like.

Or maybe more simply, what would be a convincing piece of data to you and why?

This might be a good way to back into what evidence needs to look like to be more convincing to some.

I have a feeling that some people would really rather not share this for the obvious reason: vulnerability.
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#5
(09-16-2017, 06:54 PM)jkmac Wrote: I assume so. 

But I would really like to hear from others about what their lock looks like.

Or maybe more simply, what would be a convincing piece of data to you and why?

This might be a good way to back into what evidence needs to look like to be more convincing to some.

I have a feeling that some people would really rather not share this for the obvious reason: vulnerability.

I am 99% convinced by the evidence that psi, reincarnation and after-death survival exist. I accept that much of the evidence consists of witness accounts of rare phenomena that almost always happen during life experience and not in a laboratory setting, and in fact seem almost to refuse to happen in the laboratory. I necessarily accept good "anecdotal" accounts especially from credible multiple witnesses as valid evidence that the phenomena described actually happened in spacetime reality. I recognize that the presence of a lot of veridical information adds to the credibility of the reports. 

I have much less conviction of what the nature of spiritual reality is, in terms of the purpose and meaning of life and human suffering. The established world religions, and teachings derived from other channeled sources lack credibility to me.  

I have never personally had much in the way of paranormal experiences. And I recognize the existence of a monumental body of apparent evidence for a materialistic point of view, especially since such a view is in accordance with the vast preponderance of life experience. So there still remains a niggling doubt that will probably never be satisfied in this physical life. This then necessitates the maintenance of a certain degree of cognitive dissonance, which I have gotten used to.
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#6
(09-17-2017, 09:22 PM)nbtruthman Wrote: I am 99% convinced by the evidence that psi, reincarnation and after-death survival exist. I accept that much of the evidence consists of witness accounts of rare phenomena that almost always happen during life experience and not in a laboratory setting, and in fact seem almost to refuse to happen in the laboratory. I necessarily accept good "anecdotal" accounts especially from credible multiple witnesses as valid evidence that the phenomena described actually happened in spacetime reality. I recognize that the presence of a lot of veridical information adds to the credibility of the reports. 

I have much less conviction of what the nature of spiritual reality is, in terms of the purpose and meaning of life and human suffering. The established world religions, and teachings derived from other channeled sources lack credibility to me.  

I have never personally had much in the way of paranormal experiences. And I recognize the existence of a monumental body of apparent evidence for a materialistic point of view, especially since such a view is in accordance with the vast preponderance of life experience. So there still remains a niggling doubt that will probably never be satisfied in this physical life. This then necessitates the maintenance of a certain degree of cognitive dissonance, which I have gotten used to.

I agree with pretty much all of this ? - except I would say psi isn't 'that' elusive in the laboratory, the evidence for psi is pretty rigorous, whereas I think afterlife evidence is more suggestive.
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#7
(09-18-2017, 06:16 AM)Roberta Wrote: I agree with pretty much all of this ? - except I would say psi isn't 'that' elusive in the laboratory, the evidence for psi is pretty rigorous, whereas I think afterlife evidence is more suggestive.

In the laboratory perhaps. Though there have been controlled experiments with mediums.

But outside of the lab, in ordinary life, afterlife evidence can be stronger than the other things, ordinary so-called psi can be a minor character, if present at all, where the main story is survival beyond the physical body taking  centre stage.

I almost wish it was not so. In my younger days I longed for nothing more than to live a mundane conventional life, but afterlife evidence was an obstacle which had to be acknowledged and dealt with before ordinary life could even begin.
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